Are anti-vaccine people conspiracy theorists generally? - page 23

I have an old friend from years ago who I now keep in touch with on Facebook. Her posts are fascinating in the amazing variety of conspiracy theories, some outrageous, some maybe partially true.... Read More

  1. by   hherrn
    Oh yeah- regarding the direction this thread has taken- a quote from Mark Twain:

    "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

    (I think he commandeered proverbs 26;4, but that's not my strong suit.)
  2. by   klone
    Quote from hherrn
    Oh yeah- regarding the direction this thread has taken- a quote from Mark Twain:

    "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

    (I think he commandeered proverbs 26;4, but that's not my strong suit.)
    Why I bowed out of this thread several pages ago.
  3. by   countrynurse09
    I am a nurse, and I am pregnant. At this point, I'm still on the fence about which vaccines I want my child to have. Any POSSIBLE link to autism terrifies me. This isn't too say that I won't vaccinate, or that I believe vaccines cause autism.. I am unsure and scared. I do know that I will not show my newborn to receive a hepatitis vax in the hospital before he even comes home. Regardless of whether or not it is safe (autism wise), I dint want his brand new body and immune system bombarded with mercury (or other vax additives). I also don't want his tiny brand new body pushes into an immune response to the vax (as it is intended to do to prevent hepatitis). To me, giving a vaccine right after birth would be putting undue pressue on his little body. Will I chose to vaccinate him for it a couple months later, quite possibly. I haven't decided. BUT what I don't find helpful is the aggressive stance that provaxers are taking, when they insinuate that I will be a bad mother if I choose to delay or even skip a vaccine. I think an open minded and respectful conversation would be more effective in helping me to make this confusing and fear charged decision.
  4. by   Here.I.Stand
    Quote from countrynurse09
    I am a nurse, and I am pregnant. At this point, I'm still on the fence about which vaccines I want my child to have. Any POSSIBLE link to autism terrifies me. This isn't too say that I won't vaccinate, or that I believe vaccines cause autism.. I am unsure and scared. I do know that I will not show my newborn to receive a hepatitis vax in the hospital before he even comes home. Regardless of whether or not it is safe (autism wise), I dint want his brand new body and immune system bombarded with mercury (or other vax additives). I also don't want his tiny brand new body pushes into an immune response to the vax (as it is intended to do to prevent hepatitis). To me, giving a vaccine right after birth would be putting undue pressue on his little body. Will I chose to vaccinate him for it a couple months later, quite possibly. I haven't decided. BUT what I don't find helpful is the aggressive stance that provaxers are taking, when they insinuate that I will be a bad mother if I choose to delay or even skip a vaccine. I think an open minded and respectful conversation would be more effective in helping me to make this confusing and fear charged decision.
    I didn't do the first hep B dose in the hospital either -- I was vaccinated against it 20 yrs ago and titers have since shown I'm immune. I didn't think my babies needed that pain so soon after birth, when there is virtually zero risk of becoming infected.

    Vaccines are not a "possible link to autism" any more than water is. It was based on research that would be laughable if this issue weren't so blasted serious. The infamous study by stripped-of-medical-license-so-no-longer-Dr. Andrew Wakefield used a sample size n=12!! I had a bigger sample size than that, when in 3rd grade and had to make a survey of participants' favorite Thanksgiving pie!

    Personally even if there was a link, I would take a living autistic child over one dead of tetanus or polio. Any. Day.

    Speaking for myself (although I'm sure I'm not alone), but the reason I may get "aggressive" is because I don't wish to see anything like this --
    this photo of course predating the polio vaccine. historic-maternity-ward-
  5. by   klone
    Quote from countrynurse09
    I dint want his brand new body and immune system bombarded with mercury (or other vax additives).
    Thimerosal (mercury) is no longer an ingredient in childhood vaccines. It is used as a preservative in multi-dose vials, and almost all vaccines come as a single dose now.

    There is NO link between vaccines and autism.

    I opted to delay the Hep B vaccine until my children were older, as well.
  6. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from countrynurse09
    I am a nurse, and I am pregnant. At this point, I'm still on the fence about which vaccines I want my child to have. Any POSSIBLE link to autism terrifies me. This isn't too say that I won't vaccinate, or that I believe vaccines cause autism.. I am unsure and scared. I do know that I will not show my newborn to receive a hepatitis vax in the hospital before he even comes home. Regardless of whether or not it is safe (autism wise), I dint want his brand new body and immune system bombarded with mercury (or other vax additives). I also don't want his tiny brand new body pushes into an immune response to the vax (as it is intended to do to prevent hepatitis). To me, giving a vaccine right after birth would be putting undue pressue on his little body. Will I chose to vaccinate him for it a couple months later, quite possibly. I haven't decided. BUT what I don't find helpful is the aggressive stance that provaxers are taking, when they insinuate that I will be a bad mother if I choose to delay or even skip a vaccine. I think an open minded and respectful conversation would be more effective in helping me to make this confusing and fear charged decision.
    Being a new parent is scary. What shouldn't be scary is following mountains of research.
    There is no link to vaccines and autism.
    Once your baby was born their immune system is bombarded with hundreds more assaults on his or her immune system daily than would ever be in all the childhood vaccines together. You don't overload a baby's immune system from vaccines.
    Respectful conversations are fine, but when people decide they aren't going to believe the evidence no matter what then there are and will be problems.
    Parents Guide to Childhood Immunizations | Questions Answered | CDC
    Last edit by wtbcrna on Oct 31, '17
  7. by   wtbcrna
  8. by   hherrn
    Quote from countrynurse09
    I am a nurse, and I am pregnant. At this point, I'm still on the fence about which vaccines I want my child to have. Any POSSIBLE link to autism terrifies me. This isn't too say that I won't vaccinate, or that I believe vaccines cause autism.. I am unsure and scared. I do know that I will not show my newborn to receive a hepatitis vax in the hospital before he even comes home. Regardless of whether or not it is safe (autism wise), I dint want his brand new body and immune system bombarded with mercury (or other vax additives). I also don't want his tiny brand new body pushes into an immune response to the vax (as it is intended to do to prevent hepatitis). To me, giving a vaccine right after birth would be putting undue pressue on his little body. Will I chose to vaccinate him for it a couple months later, quite possibly. I haven't decided. BUT what I don't find helpful is the aggressive stance that provaxers are taking, when they insinuate that I will be a bad mother if I choose to delay or even skip a vaccine. I think an open minded and respectful conversation would be more effective in helping me to make this confusing and fear charged decision.
    Now I am confused. I haven't closely followed all of the controversy on vaccines/autism, but I thought any links were disproved. I know that a fraudulent article was published, and some celebrities pushed the idea, but I did not know any links had been found. What are the possible links you are referring to?


    You are seeking an open minded and respectful conversation. That will be tricky, depending on your definition of open minded. Medical experts aren't going to be open minded about Jenny Mcarthy's opinions. And, they are pretty ticked off that a peer published an article that has been used to the detriment of innocent children, so they are kind of closed minded about that. But it is reasonable to expect them to be open minded in the best way to educate you, and be respectful in doing so.

    You are confused and scared. This has been primarily caused by your use of the internet, and will not be solved by using the internet.

    I would suggest you find a pediatrician you trust. This is somebody who is smart, educated, and has no agenda other than the health of your baby. And, yes, this will be a "provaxxer", mainly because it will be a "prosciencer".
  9. by   klone
    This article assumes that the mother or a caregiver has unknown/undiagnosed HBV infection. I think that if the mother knows her HBsag status and she has no other caregivers for her newborn, delaying that first HBV immunization until a later WCC is a reasonable option.
  10. by   elkpark
    Quote from Here.I.Stand
    IVaccines are not a "possible link to autism" any more than water is. It was based on research that would be laughable if this issue weren't so blasted serious. The infamous study by stripped-of-medical-license-so-no-longer-Dr. Andrew Wakefield used a sample size n=12!! I had a bigger sample size than that, when in 3rd grade and had to make a survey of participants' favorite Thanksgiving pie!
    Not only did he have a tiny "n", but it was later shown that, totally apart from that, he falsified his data because he had a financial stake in the outcome of the study. (That's the part he lost his license over. It's not that unusual, depending on the topic of the study, and not automatically wrong, to have a small "n" in a study.)
  11. by   JKL33
    Quote from wtbcrna
    Being a new parent is scary. What shouldn't be scary is following mountains of research.
    There is no link to vaccines and autism.
    Once your baby was born their immune is bombarded with hundreds more assaults on his or her immune system daily than would ever be in all the childhood vaccines together. You don't overload a baby's immune system from vaccines.
    Respectful conversations are fine, but when people decide they aren't going to believe the evidence no matter what then there are and will be problems.
    Parents Guide to Childhood Immunizations | Questions Answered | CDC

    You have come up with the classic example of not addressing real issues as already presented earlier in this thread:

    When you say that the baby receives hundreds more assaults every day than the number that comprise childhood vaccines, you do realize that, although that is true, babies don't have as visible reactions to these assaults as they do vaccines, period. Food has "germs" and crawling on the floor involves "germs" and breathing involves "germs," or assaults, as you say. And yet babies don't get fussy, sleepy/apathetic and febrile every time they are assaulted through the acts of eating food, crawling on the floor, and breathing.

    You can be as right as rain but if you can't present your issue in a way that doesn't seem illogical to lay people, it won't matter - that itself has been accepted knowledge for quite some time. You'll just have to humble yourself and take it down a notch - - shouldn't be too big a deal since what we're concerned with is the child's health and not our own personal sense of indignation about someone else's ignorance.
  12. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from klone
    This article assumes that the mother or a caregiver has unknown/undiagnosed HBV infection. I think that if the mother knows her HBsag status and she has no other caregivers for her newborn, delaying that first HBV immunization until a later WCC is a reasonable option.
    I would disagree. All labs have a margin of error, and there is no benefit to waiting to get the vaccine. This again is either you believe in the science or you don't. I understand what you are saying, but really what is the downside to getting it at birth? Vaccines don't overwhelm the immune system, vaccines don't cause any cognitive dysfunctions/ASD, vaccines adjuncts don't cause autoimmune dysfunction so you get to delay one shot with the hope that your labs are correct and hopefully no other exposure to HBV happens.
    I understand the fear and worry of being a parent, but I don't understand the irrational decision once you look at the science of benefit vs risk.
  13. by   klone
    Quote from wtbcrna
    I would disagree. All labs have a margin of error, and there is no benefit to waiting to get the vaccine. This again is either you believe in the science or you don't. I understand what you are saying, but really what is the downside to getting it at birth? Vaccines don't overwhelm the immune system, vaccines don't cause any cognitive dysfunctions/ASD, vaccines adjuncts don't cause autoimmune dysfunction so you get to delay one shot with the hope that your labs are correct and hopefully no other exposure to HBV happens.
    I understand the fear and worry of being a parent, but I don't understand the irrational decision once you look at the science of benefit vs risk.
    And that is why I've, in the past, been loathe to have this debate with you. Because anything other than wholehearted endorsement of every vaccine is seen by you as "irrational."

    If a woman is HBV negative, and the infant has no other caregivers, what is the risk to waiting until the infant's first WCC to receive their first HBV vaccine?

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