An open apology - page 3

It seems as though I may have ruffled a few feathers here with some posts I made to a particular poster. Even though I apologized in advance to the poster in case I was commiting a faux paus, it... Read More

  1. by   NurseDennie
    SuzyK - I agree with you, and I agree with Randall and Stevierae that there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions.

    And I think it's great that there's this big ol' "brain pool" here with experienced nurses. And I think that 99% of us don't mind answering questions at all - even when we know it's to help with an assignment. No, we are NOT thinking "we had to look it up, let them" like our parents said "I had to walk 8 miles to school uphill both ways, No you can't have a car!"

    No, it's a big difference in getting tips, and different slants on things from experienced nurses, than it is to be asking for questions in nursing fundamentals class.

    First of all, the nursing fundamentals classes have all been designed and approved and will tell you "the right way." (Okay there are a lot of things that we dusted off our sensible white shoes as we walked out of nursing school and never thought of again.) But you're learning that stuff that way for a reason.

    Also, if you're asking people stuff, they might very well tell you WRONG. I've seen experienced nurses confused and telling new nurses the wrong order on drawing up cloudy and clear insulins, for instance, and intelligently discussing two diametically opposed reasons for doing it different ways.

    I personally don't want to spend my relaxation time discussing the factors that affect the accuracy of the pulse-ox reading, or other stuff that I learned in fundamentals class. That's all it added up to, to me. But I agree that if someone is getting too much information from this or other bb's for their assignments and papers, then they are not getting as much out of their assignments as they should be doing.

    Love

    Dennie
  2. by   wildhoney
    Originally posted by Jenny P

    KRVRN, another reason that students shouldn't ask us to do their homework for them is that they need to learn and develop the critical thinking skills and information processing that they will need to care for their patients safely once they graduate. I want them to learn to think things through so they can understand such things as how unstable hemodynamics within the 1st 3 hrs. immediately post op after CABG may cause asystole or profound shock. I don't know everything; and they won't either; but they need to learn to think. [/QUOTE]

    So... because these students pose a question to you -- you make the assumption they are not developing "critical thinking skills?" You assume this is how they're studying the entire school year? During all their training/schooling?

    Was it very tough for you all those years. I'm wondering if "people" gave you a hard time when you asked your questions. I'm sure you asked your questions and found your answers differently back then.. huh? Times are a changin'.

    I am glad students are *asking* the questions. I would like to be the one to give them the correct answers. Maybe the answer you give a "student" will save someone else's life someday. Ever think of it that way? It's a postive way. No?

    *Edited to say: if I were to receive my answer this way (highly skeptical about what I read online) I would definitely do more research, I would not take anybody's word here as being gold.* I hope most of the people who come here are smart enough to realize that.
    Last edit by wildhoney on Apr 27, '02
  3. by   Q.
    Wildhoney-

    The thing is we need to help students help themselves. Peroid. Giving them the "right" answer as you say, which may say a patient's life isn't really logical thinking. What you are doing by "giving" a student an answer is having them commit that information to memory only, and not tying it to existing information or elaborating on concepts- thus actually LEARNING.

    I think that is what Jenny was trying to communicate here.
  4. by   valaferdi


    Please tell me why experienced nurses do not like to answer questions? I am not talking about doing my homework for me because I like to do it myself.

    I graduate in two weeks with my ADN and as an honor student and I did all the work myself.

    I have read all the posts here and to me it seems like there is the discussion of doing a student's homework and answering a simple question. Two different topics, once again what is wrong with asking a simple question?

    If I ask a question once I have 10 years experience wiil I be viewed as a stupid nurse because I already should know the answer; I hope not. On the job there is no time for research, but there is time for collaboration with fellow co-workers.
  5. by   hapeewendy
    there is no problem with answering questions
    or getting feedback
    the problem is when someone types a question that reads almost exactly like its from a textbook and doesnt say "hey im doing this assignment can I get your opinions or any suggestions on where I can get info"
    instead just types the question ,awaiting the answers
  6. by   Agnus
    I am so sorry and ashamed that nurses feel when a student asks them a question that the student is "cheating."

    It is not that long ago that I was in my basic program. Students may at times very well ask "textbook" assigned questions. Thier job is to find the answer. If the student goes to a textbook to get the answer. Is that cheating? The point is to learn. And quite frankly one cannnot lear the infor without having a source that has it.

    When I was in school I was taught that is is perfectly ok even expected that I would ask RNs and other professionals questions and would utilize them in completing questions I had been assigned. It was assumed that all my learning would not come from a text book and that my best learing resource was RNs. It doesn't matter where the knowledge comes from as long as it is accurate.
    I have often found that the information I received from RNs was dead wrong, but the RN just NEW she was right. I took this back to class and discussed it and discussed it in my papers (what was wrong with the RN's "theories" and why. )

    Get off your high horse. We have a lot to learn from students!!!! What a concept.

    I fail to see how giving a student an answer will diminish their learning and cause them to be a bad RN for having "cheated" by asking a nurse a question about nursing. That is unless you give a very wrong answer and when you are challenged you get another RN who is equally igornant as you to back you up against the student. (this was frequently done with me)

    What are you going to do ask the delivery person? NOT all the answers are in text books and not all can be reasoned out. I for one will continue to help students and I do acknowledge that I do not have the definitive answer to all thier questions.

    If it's not a student asking how does that make it ok? Do you still want to work along side an RN who is a "cheater" Frankly I don't want to work along side of you the holder to the keys of all knowledge who feel only others as qualified as you are entitled to share in it.
  7. by   wildhoney
    Originally posted by Susy K
    Wildhoney-

    The thing is we need to help students help themselves. Peroid. Giving them the "right" answer as you say, which may say a patient's life isn't really logical thinking.

    I was referring to information being stored in your memory bank for later use.

    Are you implying that I'm illogical in my thinking? That isn't very nice.
    Last edit by wildhoney on Apr 27, '02
  8. by   Jay Levan
    Originally posted by 2ndCareerRN
    It seems as though I may have ruffled a few feathers here with some posts I made to a particular poster.

    Even though I apologized in advance to the poster in case I was commiting a faux paus, it seems as though that was not enough.
    So, I will now apologize once again to sweet nurse and any one else who feels I was out of line in my replies to sweet nurse.

    bob

    [edited due to not wanting to ruffle even more feathers]
    All it takes is a 2mph wind to ruffle some peoples feathers:spin: Jay
  9. by   ageless
    I believe that some posters are missing the point of this discussion. Asking a question for further understanding of the rational after one has found the textbook answer is perfectly respectable.
    This discussion originally centered around a member who was going to different discussion groups in this forum typing in her study guide questions. Whether she/he denies it or not..it was pretty obvious that she wasn't asking out of concern for the "other students" knowledge base as she stated. IMHO I don't care to work with lazy nurses and that is the beginning sign of one. one who for example will not look up their own medications in the PDR but rather have you do for them.
    I especially enjoyed the question about the pulse ox. For fun i typed pulse oximetry into Google.com and came up with all the answers to the posters question in one hit. Apparently, the poster was too lazy to even do that...we were asked to do it for him/her.
    I love student questions that have been asked after some effort on their part has been made and most seasoned nurses feel the same way.

    IMHO the poster was attempting to cheat on an assignment. Nursing and deception are a dangerous combination.
  10. by   hapeewendy
    Agnus you know I love you, but your high horse thing is just not fair!
    I know I am no better than any other person period.. nurse or non nurse
    I am simply saying that I think that you can ask for input and opinions but that you should put those answers and opinions in your own words, and do research to support your points.

    I certainly am not on any high horse of any kind
    I rode a horse once and it scared the bejesus outta me!

    I think there is a big difference however in asking for input and information as opposed to typing a research question and wanting the answer to be handed to you in a nice easy way..

    all of us were students once, and always will be in life, no one knows everything......period.
  11. by   NurseDennie
    Wow - who can predict what subject will whip up passion on this BB? Not I! I never would have figured it for this one, that's for sure!

    Love

    Dennie
  12. by   Q.
    Wildhoney-
    Information stored into memory really isn't a good way of learning, ie memorization for the sake of memorizing or rote learning. Learning occurs when information is pieced together with existing data.

    For example: a student posting a question here such as "what is the anatomical top the heart called?" and us answering is promoting her MEMORIZATION of the topic. Per your argument, her knowing that it is called the Apex might help her perform CPR thus saving someone's life later.

    I say that instead of answering her, we should guide her in the thought process to arrive at that answer, thus actually learning the concept and not just memorizing facts to regurgitate later and potentially lose with time.

    No hard feelings, really.
  13. by   wildhoney
    Originally posted by Susy K

    Wildhoney-
    Information stored into memory really isn't a good way of learning, ie memorization for the sake of memorizing or rote learning. Learning occurs when information is pieced together with existing data.


    Works for me


    For example: a student posting a question here such as "what is the anatomical top the heart called?" and us answering is promoting her MEMORIZATION of the topic. Per your argument, her knowing that it is called the Apex might help her perform CPR thus saving someone's life later.

    Exactly.


    No hard feelings, really.

    None exist here.
    Last edit by wildhoney on Apr 27, '02

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