Agency Nursing vs Staff Nursing - page 7

Hi All! I am preparing to do a debate in my Nursing 510 course about agency vs staff nursing. It is a formal debate complete with PowerPoint presentation, etc. My team and I will be arguing... Read More

  1. by   Teshiee
    OOh gosh! I don't care what that article is claiming. I work in many different hospitals and have seen staff nurses with sloppy techniques. I think it is an individual thing besides did that article stipulate there are more nurses who are doing agency more now? I still say agency all the way. Unitl the administrator get off their 4 point of contact and recognize that nurses are an integral part of the health care team agency nursing will continue to flurish.
  2. by   Maula, RN
    You know when you add up the cost of paying an agency nurse vs. the cost of paying a staff the the latter is more expensive. The agency nurse is only paid money, however the staff nurse is paid money, PTO (vacation, sicktime, etc.), insurance (health, dental, and short term long term disability), not to mention tuition reimbursement, CEUs, and the list goes on and on. So this leads me to believe that hospitals are trying to save money filling open shifts with agency nurses and save money.
  3. by   Maula, RN
    Originally posted by Teshiee
    OOh gosh! I don't care what that article is claiming. I work in many different hospitals and have seen staff nurses with sloppy techniques. I think it is an individual thing besides did that article stipulate there are more nurses who are doing agency more now? I still say agency all the way. Unitl the administrator get off their 4 point of contact and recognize that nurses are an integral part of the health care team agency nursing will continue to flurish.

    Teshiee, I feel you girl. I cannot believe that agency nurses are being blamed for so many problems. I have worked agency sine '94. Usually I go into a facility and find that their nurses have overlooked things that I feel are serious. Especially in nursing homes. I can not believe some of the things I see. But agency nurses bring a broad range of experiences and because we are agency nurses, we are able to adapt to new situations easily, find our way around, and tend to be more flexible.
  4. by   fadingyouth
    Quite an unusual take on an age old question.
    Some travel agencies do offer all the above benefits, however once the contract is over so are the benefits. Insurance can be cobraed but who can afford it.
    If you add the norm of $6.00 to your base salary,plus add another similar amt. for tution reimbursement, ceu's, does the staf member really make more?
    The one big issue is that w/o insurance- I just cannot afford to get sick.
  5. by   Q.
    Originally posted by Maula, RN



    Teshiee, I feel you girl. I cannot believe that agency nurses are being blamed for so many problems.
    I've read the article and I didn't get a sense that "they" were blaming agency nurses. The study was looking at needle sticks and infection rates and noticed a correlation between a high incidence of these things and a high use of agency nurses at the time. Please remember that correlation does not equal causation.

    My personal opinion on agency nurses, after reviewing BOTH sides of the coin, is that currently agency nursing is being used inappropriately and as a method to "quick fix" a nursing shortage. Filling the holes with agency is not going to solve the problem, and, in my opinion, can make it worse. Among the benefits of being an agency nurse are no commitments to a facility ie no committee work, no involvement in politics. The way I see it, no nurse involvement, no unit or hospital change.
  6. by   SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    originally posted by susy k ...i've read the article and i didn't get a sense that "they"were blaming agency nurses. the study was looking at needle sticks and infection rates and noticed a correlation between a high incidence of these things and a high use of agency nurses at the time. please remember that correlation does not equal causation.
    ...but by you mentioning the article, you've suggested that a correlation was a causation...hence all of the agency nurses rebuttals against the article or against what it suggests. but if your intention wasn't to make the article suggest the correlation as causation, why then even mention the article in the first place??? just an observation ...don't take this post or the other rebuttals personally...it's just the subject matter that a lot of the posters object to. :blushkiss
    Last edit by SKM-NURSIEPOOH on Apr 21, '02
  7. by   Q.
    originally posted by skm-nursiepooh
    ...but by you mentioning the article, you've suggested that a correlation was a causation...hence all of the agency nurses rebuttals against the article or against what it suggests. but if your intention wasn't to make the article suggest the correlation as causation, why then even mention the article in the first place??? just an observation ...don't take this post or the other rebuttals personally...it's just the subject matter that a lot of the posters object to. :blushkiss
    i don't see how my referencing an article finding, which clearly suggests correlation, somehow translates to causation, by my mere citation. you give me waaayyy to much credit on my abilities.

    whether causation exists or not, it doesn't dismiss the importance and significance of correlation, which can lead to the study being repeated to identify causation if it exists.

    our team used these findings in our debate and were appropriate to use to argue against agency nurse use; i see no reason to find that i shouldn't mention them here.
    Last edit by Susy K on Apr 21, '02
  8. by   fadingyouth
    Perhaps instead of "blaming", we should look at all the positive things that agency nurses do. Let's think about an unique thing called " support".
    Some agency nurses do become involved, just not a part of the political system. Once known and respected for your abilities it is highly probable that you will be asked to assist with peer orientation.
    Allow me to reiterate that some agency nurses are the staff once contractual agreements are reached. In most cases we, constrained by protocols, are more aware of the do 's and don's.
    We strive harder because no one wants to see or hear DNR-
    do not return- on their profile.
    In the long run it is up to each nurse to use universal precautions, abide by the hospital protocols, and utilize knowledge and caution.
    BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!
    Last edit by fadingyouth on Apr 21, '02
  9. by   SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    originally posted by susy k
    ...i don't see how my referencing an article finding, which clearly suggests correlation, somehow translates to causation, by my mere citation. you give me waaayyy to much credit on my abilities.

    whether causation exists or not, it doesn't dismiss the importance and significance of correlation, which can lead to the study being repeated to identify causation if it exists.

    our team used these findings in our debate and were appropriate to use to argue against agency nurse use; i see no reason to find that i shouldn't mention them here.
    ...nor am i discrediting you either...i just wanted you to be aware that by mentioning the article, it somehow validates that a lot of problems in hospitals stem from using agency nurses...as if they're a direct cause for many of the problems that this particular article states.

    but if your original premise is that using agency nurses is placing a band-aid or a "quick fix" to the system due to other reasons such as the nursing shortage, no political commitment of them, & or no involvement with the structure of the hospital system...then bringing the article-up that suggests more errors & or accidents are correlated by agency nurses use doesn't support your original premise. it's like, you found something else wrong with using agency nurses & decided to add what the article stated with your original premise. once the article was paraphrased by you...you'd presented it from your understanding & point of view...most of us have not read it for our selves as of yet & are only going by how you've presented it. i promise, when i do get the time, i will read it for myself & come to my own conclusion as to what it's exactly saying.

    and your absolutely right as far as you're being able to use it for your class debate...it was perfectly fine & appropriate because the article can be presented or passed around & everyone has the opportunity to drawl their own conclusions. it's rather difficult to drawl any conclusions here on the internet bbs without having verbal as well as non-verbal cues...that's all.
    :roll
  10. by   mattsmom81
    I also can find a correlation in my critical care unit that the more doctors are in the unit at any given time the more the patients are neglected (the docs want our attention).

    Studies and statistics can be (and are) skewed to meet the needs/agenda of the people running the study....IMHO.

    Which is why I take them with a grain of sale in many cases.
  11. by   Q.
    Yep, except in the blood infection case, the study was actually done to look at OTHER aspects of increased rate of infection, such as acuity of the patient, type of infection, etc and in their findings found as a side note that the rate when up for a period of 6 months when agency nurse use was high. The entire article wasn't to "bash" agency nurses as some of you might think. The correlation wasn't even the main purpose of the study!

    I really think paranoia is running rampant in the nursing profession. No one is "out to get" agency nurses for cripe's sake. "They, them" are not out "to discredit" anyone or suggest that agency nurses don't wash their hands. Yikes, people!
  12. by   fadingyouth
    Perhaps on the day that that particular study was done there were more agency nurses, but was it due to a lack of staff nurses?
    Anyone can pick a topic, study it and make something out of it.
    I do not think that it is "paranoia running rampant", but the fact that agency nurses are tired of always being associated with the negatives or indiscretionately at fault.
    The statement that mattsmom made is a valid one- it occurs in most settings-not just critical care units.
    I have recently been in areas where the RN is in "care of the desk" and won't lend a hand under any circumstances. I have seen professional nursing students disrespect an LVN because they were informed that LVN's could not possibly have the correct answer. I know of LVN's that know less and function less than a CNA. Let's do a study relating to effective nursing standards-all nurses,not just agency.
    Universal precautions is to be used by all --not just a chosen few.
  13. by   Q.
    Originally posted by fadingyouth
    Perhaps on the day that that particular study was done there were more agency nurses, but was it due to a lack of staff nurses?
    I believe the study wasn't done on a particular DAY. It was a study over several months. Looking at something for one day only wouldn't really be statistically significant as there is not enough data to identify a trend.


    Let's do a study relating to effective nursing standards-all nurses,not just agency.
    That was the original intent of the study. The study looked at the staffing mix of all nurses (new grads, experience level, educational level) to look at how it affected infection, etc. In the process of analyzing data, noticed the correlation. The point of the study was not to single out agency nurses nor was it the goal, intent or premise. That is what I want everyone to understand.

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Agency Nursing vs Staff Nursing