Addressing the Predicted Nursing Shortage - page 9

allnurses.com staffers were recently fortunate to interview Audrey Wirth, MSN, RN-BC, CVRN-BC adjunct clinical instructor at Aurora University's School of Nursing and Allied Health. She has published... Read More

  1. by   OldDude
    Quote from SpankedInPittsburgh
    Functionally I see no difference for bedside nursing between these credentials. The reason to get a BSN is to manage your career, get raises and more opportunities & that s all. There is no defending the fluff curriculum of nursing education. No defense to all those theory classes. Honestly I think a large o the BSN push is a money grab by educational institutions and keeping nurse instructors / professors in their comfort zone. It certainly has nothing to do with students or the patients they care for. This couple years of credits should be filled up with challenging, clinically based classes that nurses would be interested in. Something that nurses would need and even more want but that's not what we have or anywhere close to it
    No truer words have been spoken!!!
  2. by   Here.I.Stand
    There are certain things that BSNs can do that ADNs cannot. BSN learn a lot of paperwork. ADN don't

    7. More math means more earning. Some CEO or director positions require use of calculus mathematics in order to run efficiently. The math you know, the more money you can earn.
    First point: there are actually zero scope of practice differences. A BSN or MSN is typically required for a leadership position, but for a bedside/staff nurse, your assertion is simply not true.

    More paperwork? Do you mean written papers or documentation?

    Second point: I haven't heard of calculus being required for nursing. I did take calculus as a general ed for the music degree I was working on right out of high school. When I started my ADN program, COLLEGE ALGEBRA was waived bc I had taken calculus. My BSN program had no higher math requirement. None.

    Granted that's just my experience, but on this forum, you see pre-nursing students get all nervous about college algebra. Nobody ever freaks out about having to take calculus.... to me that suggests they don't have to take it. If they did, they would post about being nervous for calculus.
  3. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    No calculus. Algebra & Stats
  4. by   Here.I.Stand
    Quote from SpankedInPittsburgh
    No calculus. Algebra & Stats
    Oh I did have stats as a prereq for my BSN bridge, almost forgot about that! I don't think that's considered "higher math." I could be wrong about that, but my class was MILES easier than calc.

    Hopefully not getting too off topic, but I wouldn't mind if calc was required. I remember a few years back, sitting in a meeting with my then-5th-grader's math faculty, discussing the possibility of her taking Algebra I in 6th grade. One of the pros was that in college, Calc II is a big weed-out class for aspiring math/engineering majors and pre-med students. This way, she could complete Calc II while still in high school.

    Nurses are not primarily hand holders; we hold a huge responsibility for pts lives. Of course the pt needs providers, but they are not continuously at the bedside. We don't need engineering math, but why wouldn't we want the best and brightest in our ranks?
  5. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    I've had calculus also & I gotta disagree. I don't think its applicable to nursing and it would weed out people but some of those would be great nurses
  6. by   OldDude
    Quote from SpankedInPittsburgh
    I've had calculus also & I gotta disagree. I don't think its applicable to nursing and it would weed out people but some of those would be great nurses
    It would have weeded me out!!! I'd still pipefitting...
  7. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    Quote from OldDude
    It would have weeded me out!!! I'd still pipefitting...
    Well that would be a win for the pipefitters but a real loss for nursing and all the folks you have helped. Calculus be damned,
  8. by   OldDude
    Quote from SpankedInPittsburgh
    Well that would be a win for the pipefitters but a real loss for nursing and all the folks you have helped. Calculus be damned,
    Well, that's very kind - thank you!
  9. by   smartnurse1982
    As I have said on here before,try getting a bedside Rn position in a NJ hospital with an ADN.
    You will be laughed at.

    my point? The Bsn is required for bedside Rn jobs now in some places.

    So can we please stop with this myth that the Bsn is for "Management only?"

    It required for med-surg and Homecare positions in my area.

    Yes,the VNA requires a Bsn for field staff homecare Rn's.
  10. by   Jedrnurse
    Quote from Oldmahubbard

    Nursing theory needs to be entirely deleted from BSN and MSN programs. There is widespread agreement on this, but who has the power and the cajones to change the curricula?
    Thank you for distilling into a couple of sentences this truism. If I weren't agnostic, I might form a religion solely around the evils of nursing theory. Are you available to be it's prophet? It might pay well if we can get every nurse/nursing student traumatized by theory content in nursing classes to contribute $$...
  11. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    Quote from Oldmahubbard
    I did my BSN 20 years ago. The only classes of real value were Statistics and Patho. Even Patho was largely a rehash of A and P, although I did learn from it, actually enjoyed it.

    Nursing theory needs to be entirely deleted from BSN and MSN programs. There is widespread agreement on this, but who has the power and the cajones to change the curricula?

    Shortage? There is not now, nor has there ever been, a shortage of nurses applying for good nursing positions.

    There always will be a shortage of graveyard shift nurses.
    That's worth a double take. Here Here!!!
  12. by   lisak431
    As a nurse of 23 years with an associates degree, and nearly 55 years of age, I am currently back in school to obtain my BSN in nursing. I have no intention of seeking a supervisory role and am only back in school because it is required by my workplace. I agree with those of you who said that much of what is taught in the BSN program is not related to or used in my daily practice. I have, however, learned from some of the classes that I have taken.
    Truth be told, if I had a choice of continuing schooling for the next 7 months or so that I have left to complete my BSN, I would stop today. It is extremely time consuming (assuming you are committed and will not settle for anything but an A), and it takes away from the little free time I have with my family and friends.
    That being said, I will continue with schooling until my BSN is complete and I will try to take away anything I can to improve myself as a nurse and a member of society. It is my opinion that there should be many less papers to write, one a week is ridiculous, and that amount of reading seems endless; giving credit for time served in the nursing profession should be integrated into the BSN programs, making the amount of time needed for each class, writing papers and doing research more manageable and helping those of us who have been nursing for so long, feel less encumbered by the extensive amount of time taken from our daily lives.
    I think we can learn just as much or more from having to engage in discussions and providing significant contributions to them, rather than writing copious amounts of papers. I think more people would want to advance their education if there were financial gain and less time commitment. The buy-in is difficult when the result ends at the starting point.

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