Accident Scenes: Do You Always Offer Assistance? - page 3
Ok, so I have read what many have felt their obligation would be on the scene of an accident, but what would you do if you caused the accident, hitting a pedestrian, country road, EMS 10 minutes or... Read More
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1Oct 15, '12 by NurseOnAMotorcyclePeople seem to think that medical professionals are some kind of magic being that can fix everything immediately with a thought. They think we have some kind of connection with the ether that can instantly solve any illness with a benevolent touch of the hand.
We're not. We have studied extensively to assess what's going on through sight, touch, smell, lab results, radiology scans, etc to use the equipment (Ivs, cardiac monitors, medication, etc) to help a patient over time.
We don't always HAVE time. Or equipment. Sometimes moving someone is worse than leaving them. Sometimes all we can do is protect someone from traffic and call for help (911).
This is a very sad story from any point of view. I wish we were magic so we could make it better always.
1Oct 15, '12 by Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN Senior ModeratorQuote from JD'sMomTrying to find understanding in a situation that cannot be understood will drive you NUTS! Not all nurses are trained in emergency care. Some specialize in the care of the elderly and have no idea what to do. Trying to make sense out of this won't happen because it makes no sense. YOu will drive yourself crazy.Thank you both for your kind words. I don't know if it was pure panic, or something else altogether. Impairment and attentiveness are in question. All of that aside, I am not the kind of person to carry hatred, as I now long for the hereafter, where I can see and hold my beautiful son again, so I am doing my best to hold myself and my family together.
I appreciate your candor, as I am trying desperately to understand, but knowing that I was on the opposite end of the street, having come home from a meeting three miles away, my child not there, and seeing the lights down the roadway, and I had called him over and over on the phone, and all his friends. Finally the police came down on my end of the street and I rushed to find if he could answer my question of whether or not there was a skateboard or bike involved. He confirmed my worst fears. I remember crying, but not screaming, as my mind was racing 100 mph, trying to think of what I needed to do, to reach my older child, who had driven out looking for him, and get her off the streets before she found out from someone else, and to reach my husband, who was attending a seminar. It was horrible, but I didn't panic. I remember thinking that maybe they had made a mistake...
I just can't fathom watching someone bleed to death, when you have the knowledge or the skills to do SOMETHING!
The have been times in my career that I wondered why one patient lived over the other. That the 98 year old "makes it" yet the baby didn't. That is where faith steps in.......I have faith that I don't make the decisions. That there is someone else who knows more than I and can see the bigger picture and know the bigger purpose.
I have faith in that and in HIM I trust.
Life doesn't make sense. Don't look for reason where none can be found....it's like looking for a penny in a round room.....it will drive you nuts!
I wish I could make this go away for you......but I think trying to figure out the "whys" will not help you heal. I pray that you find that place that even though you don't know why....you can find peace in your heart....your family deserves it. You son would want that.
I am sending the biggest hugs I can.........
1Oct 15, '12 by NutmeggeRNIm so sorry for your loss....I hope in time you find some solace.....may your child rest in peace....
0Oct 15, '12 by JW2011I think the driver read this same book you subscribe to.
Quote from 8mpgMy simple answer is... if you dont know what you are doing, dont do anything
1Oct 15, '12 by traumaRUs, MSN, APRN, CNS AdminPlease don't take the poster as being flippant - like other posters, I just don't think you will ever make sense out of the senseless death of your precious son.
We can only offer our sympathy.
0Oct 16, '12 by 8mpgQuote from JD'sMomIm sorry to say it but there are many times that it is better to do nothing. As a previous EMT and having been on accident scenes, it is often better people not get involved and allow the properly trained people handle the situation. Many nurses dont know that holding Cspine is important. They feel like they need to get someone out of the car. Causing a person to become para/quadriplegic due to ignorance is not a good idea. Many jump into a situation without regard to scene safety. Many nurses while intentions are good, may not have emergency training. I can tell you from seeing how often out own nursing staff freezes during a code.I think the driver read this same book you subscribe to.
0Oct 16, '12 by JW2011This was a pedestrian, that SHE hit. It would be great if there were someone there trained in emergency to take over or handle it, and of course that would be the best case scenario, but it isn't what existed! My question was if YOU were an RN and there was nobody there to render aid, in an accident that YOU caused, would you feel obligated to offer ANY assistance in the face of NONE?
Quote from 8mpgIm sorry to say it but there are many times that it is better to do nothing. As a previous EMT and having been on accident scenes, it is often better people not get involved and allow the properly trained people handle the situation. Many nurses dont know that holding Cspine is important. They feel like they need to get someone out of the car. Causing a person to become para/quadriplegic due to ignorance is not a good idea. Many jump into a situation without regard to scene safety. Many nurses while intentions are good, may not have emergency training. I can tell you from seeing how often out own nursing staff freezes during a code.
0Oct 16, '12 by LCinTrainingI AM trained. I am an EMT. If I caused an accident of course I would stop regardless, but what I do is dependent upon what I CAN do. Pulling a victim from a car can cause so much more damage than if left there. I would never remove a patient from where they were. I would never move a patient even if they lay on the ground. C-spine protection is the first and foremost important thing at the scene of an accident and doing anything other than that, has the potential to cause even more damage. We hear of cases often where a medical trained person tries to pull a victim from a car and is being sued and losing because they did not do it properly. Is your license worth losing over that? Even if you caused the accident?
The only help that can be offered is determining how many patients there are at the scene. Dialing 911 and holding c-spine for one of the patients. If you want to take a history on a verbal patient great, but any more than that, you risk much harm.
1Oct 16, '12 by jt43First I want to say that I'm so sorry for your loss and I hope you find some peace.As for me, in this siituation, if there was an obvious head injury, I wouldn't move the injured person even if that meant they stayed face down in the middle of the road. I would like to think I would be calm enough to take a pulse or make sure the injured person was breathing, but if they weren't, there wouldn't be much I could do about it without equipment. My focus would be on calling EMS. FWIW, I can can be sympathetic to someone having difficulty giving directions to their location. I frequently drive on roads that are a mile or so from my house without knowing their exact name. Being emotionally upset (as I imagine anyone in that situation would be) can be disorienting. I would caution you about creating scenes in your head. Do you know for a fact that your son died without anyone touching him or saying anything to him? Maybe finding out more information could be helpful, but it could also cause more trauma. Some counseling for yourself and your family would be beneficial as you try to move forward. Again, I'm so sorry.
0Oct 16, '12 by 8mpgQuote from JD'sMomIf Im not trained as EMS or for any type of trauma/emergency training, I probably would only offer to call 911. While we do have good Samaritan laws that do protect us, you must remember that you are only protected under YOUR scope of practice and training. If you are not trained to take care of a person with a femur fracture and move the leg, you could possible cause major bleeding from a punctured femoral artery. You may not have proper equipment (even gloves) to protect the patient and yourself. EMS training will ALWAYS tell you safety first (your safety before patient safety). Just because someone is a nurse or doctor doesnt mean they are qualified in emergency situations. You will find many doctors will not get involved as they assume liability and as a more qualified practitioner than EMS will be obligated to care for and assume responsibility until the patient is turned over to a hospital ER physician.This was a pedestrian, that SHE hit. It would be great if there were someone there trained in emergency to take over or handle it, and of course that would be the best case scenario, but it isn't what existed! My question was if YOU were an RN and there was nobody there to render aid, in an accident that YOU caused, would you feel obligated to offer ANY assistance in the face of NONE?
0Oct 16, '12 by RNperdiemSadly with head injuries, even with all the equipment and training in the world, we are all delicate creatures.
1Oct 16, '12 by CrunchRNWhether I caused it or not if I saw that the injured were dying (not breathing, bleeding out, etc...) then I would take action because you would not face the risk of additional harm.
If they appeared stable I would keep them still until EMS appeared on scene.
I am so sorry that you do not have even the comfort of the human touch for your child. I would hope though that all the wonderful human touch and love he experienced all his life from you and his family filled up his heart and head.