A time to reform nursing education? - page 6

After reading some very interesting posts around here lately in regards to "fluff" being taught in nursing school, I wonder if it is time to reform nursing education. I feel we could do without... Read More

  1. Visit  nursel56 profile page
    4
    Quote from cmw6v8
    . . . .All those "fluff" classes, the electives, statistics, whatever it may be may seem really useless while you are taking them. But I've found that I really appreciate my well-rounded education from my previous degree, where my curriculum was centered around humanities and journalism.
    I agree with this! Anthropology, Sociology, Statistics, and Philosophy are not "fluff" to me. Even Art History can be useful for learning about other cultures before photography, and nothing screams "psych issue" like The Garden of Earthly Delights by Hieronymus Bosch. "Fluff" to me is a class that has a low return for time invested. Not-fluff can turn into fluff if it's dumbed down too much, though. But that's a whole 'nuther thread topic. I am shocked, shocked at the amount of poster-making, water and flour map making and papier mch projects assigned in today's senior high and general ed requirements in colleges these days. Signed, old fuddy-duddy.
    flyingchange, Fribblet, elkpark, and 1 other like this.
  2. Visit  GreyGull profile page
    3
    Quote from nursel56
    I agree with this! Anthropology, Sociology, Statistics, and Philosophy are not "fluff" to me. Even Art History can be useful for learning about other cultures before photography,
    Many of these so called "fluff" classes are still based on the 3 "Rs"; Reading, Writing and Arithmetic. Those in the visual or creative arts serve a purpose to stimulate the mind which is also part of the critical thinking process. When you do assessments, you utilize all of your senses. For any daily activity, you utilize all of your senses. The liberal arts aide in assessing and channeling one's thought processes into communication and assist in problem solving. The arts can train someone to be more observant to details. Maybe that sounds a little philosophical to some but education is complex. Whether you like it or not your brain is getting some benefit from those "fluff" classes.

    You can have a choice of having college be just like grammar school with Reading 1, Reading 2, Reading 3 or you can stimulate someone's interest through an American literature class. The alternative could also be to go back to the tech school way and have all of the text books written at 8th or 10th grade levels. Documentation would a challenge and even now it seems some write at less than a 6th grade level.
    The internet and texting hasn't helped either.
    elkpark, nyteshade, and nursel56 like this.
  3. Visit  JenniferSews profile page
    6
    My ADN had no "fluff" courses. It was the bare bones makings of a good nurse, with 700 clinical hours in 2 years. But I couldn't help notice the difference in my clinical rotations over time. My second semester I was given a single patient and was responsible for every portion of care, from med administration to bed bath. The only thing that needed signing off with a nurse was a narcotic. But I knew very well I would have to give a solid reason for every med I gave during my shift, plus the action, interaction and contraindications and I was ready at a moment's notice to verbalize all that. But by my fourth semester I wasn't allowed to give a Tylenol without approval from my preceptor standing by my side, scanning in and signing off the med. My vitals were double checked by a cna and my every move was monitored. Focus of what was important moved from being prepared for clinicals to doing well on the killer tests mainly because clinical instructors were too overburdened to be as hard nosed as they had been. The application value of those classroom tests is still up for debate imho.

    Not that there should be any room for error in school, but we were never given the chance to even think about what we were doing by 4th semester. That one clinical instructor knew what and why we were doing things based on her experience, but since she had 5 other students tapping their feet to give their am meds without being late, she only had time to click through and sign off. She never had time to question us on the meds, or the patient diagnosis, or the reasons we may have had to hold those meds. It seems to me it should have been the other way around, with newer students being monitored much more closely.

    But with hospitals being more and more conscious of the legal ramifications of every move they make, it's harder and harder to train students and even give them any patient contact.
    jkaee, DogWmn, Not_A_Hat_Person, and 3 others like this.
  4. Visit  thomlewis3 profile page
    2
    I have work in the ER as an RN now for ten year and never once have had a reason to use a Nursing Diagnosis it and age old idea that all those people with a PHD in nursing use to justify there existence. Also a waste of time. WE need to take care of our patients the government, JACO, and all the other regulatory boards and bodies all ready cause a mountain of paperwork. This archaic practice just add more to the pile.
    Jarnaes and nyteshade like this.
  5. Visit  Spikey9001 profile page
    1
    Tagging this to read later.
    nursel56 likes this.
  6. Visit  netglow profile page
    8
    I think the word "fluff" in relation to actual nursing coursework means all the time spent on "therapeutic communication" and "anything NANDA". Huge focus loss.

    Too much time is spent dancing around the elephant in the room. Sure it's important to know how to communicate, but the main focus in nursing edu should be on pathophysiology/A&P/Pharmacology and your skillset of assessment/intervention as part of a team: you and physician, you and ancillary staff. Simply, "what do I have here, what am I going to do about it".
    DogWmn, SummitRN, Not_A_Hat_Person, and 5 others like this.
  7. Visit  nyteshade profile page
    1
    Quote from LiveToLearn
    This is an incredibly rude and broad generalization. I work 40 hours a week as an educator, 12 hours weekly in the ICU, full time ICU in summers, and am a full time doctoral student. I have no free time. I do this to ensure that what I teach is clinically relevant and current. My students deserve the best. Nursing education is one of the most thankless jobs, and I am as tired of that worn out phrase "those who can, do..." as I am of "all nurses eat their young."

    Trite sayings and insults improve nothing. Honest dialogue and inquiry can change things. It's too bad you prefer the former.

    It makes me sad, honestly. I thought this would be a great thread to read; I have really enjoyed all the constructive comments others have made. I simply do not understand why it is acceptable to insult an entire group of nursing colleagues. It would be met with outrage if I said "Specialty 'x' is for those who can't handle real nursing," but it is acceptable to say all nurse educators "can't do?"
    Thank you for being an nursing educator! I have had wonderful nursing instructors that I will never forget, and I strive to be like them in my own practice. I agree that nursing as a whole needs to let go of tired sayings, and beliefs.
    AOx1 likes this.
  8. Visit  nyteshade profile page
    0
    Initially when I started this thread, I was referring to the actual nursing classes. Updating perhaps? I think our prereqs are ok, they just aren't streamlined like pre-professional programs.
  9. Visit  Spikey9001 profile page
    0
    Ok, quick question...

    If everyone is saying that nursing should be based on the "sciencey" courses... then what would make you different from a doctor other than the amount of said education?
  10. Visit  jjjoy profile page
    3
    Nurse = mini-doctor + nursing diagnoses + therapeutic communication?

    But it is the crux of the matter. What IS nursing? I think it's too broad to try to lump all kinds of nurses together. Maybe it just doesn't make sense to have one standard RN license. Is it realistic to have one standard teaching license for all manner of teachers?College physics instructors, master piano coaches, pre-school teachers and suburban ballet instructors?

    Some kinds of nursing only require a fairly minimal science/medical foundation. Other kinds require a very strong science/medical foundation. Some kinds of nursing can be entered into with fairly quick training. Other kinds demand years of training and experience.

    In order to continue building on the "professionalization" of nursing, perhaps nurses would need to loose some their flexibility. If it's not the case that "a nurse is a nurse is a nurse" then we may need to accept some increased obstacles for nurses in switching between specialties.
    Not_A_Hat_Person, Jarnaes, and 14togo like this.
  11. Visit  whodatnurse profile page
    4
    Quote from 2ndwind
    I think the word "fluff" in relation to actual nursing coursework means all the time spent on "therapeutic communication" and "anything NANDA". Huge focus loss.

    Too much time is spent dancing around the elephant in the room. Sure it's important to know how to communicate, but the main focus in nursing edu should be on pathophysiology/A&P/Pharmacology and your skillset of assessment/intervention as part of a team: you and physician, you and ancillary staff. Simply, "what do I have here, what am I going to do about it".
    Yeah...my original degrees were from a liberal arts college and I sure as heck never considered ANY of those courses as 'fluff'. I did think, however, that a nursing program specifically intended for people who have degrees in one or more fields would take into account that they already have demonstrated reading, writing, presentation, and communications skills and place greater emphasis on the SKILLSETS particular to nursing.

    You are dead on about today's educational emphasis in nursing being "the elephant in the room". We part ways from our educators at graduation with assurances that we "know more than we think we know". Yet there seems to be an awful lot of terror and tears for a lot of folks during that first year coupled with feelings of self doubt and lack of confidence in what they're doing. There simply has GOT to be a better way of preparing people to enter the field.
    flyingchange, SummitRN, netglow, and 1 other like this.
  12. Visit  jjjoy profile page
    0
    Another student frustrated with nursing school

    Why is Nursing School So Flawed? - Nursing for Nurses
  13. Visit  Fribblet profile page
    2
    I was fortunate enough to have had a university education before I learned the nursing trade. It has served me well, and I credit my critical thinking skills to my previous education.

    I only wish others were so lucky. You learn a trade in nursing school; you definitely don't get an education.
    netglow and GreyGull like this.

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