A Lesson Learned - page 2
Again, there is another thread started- which could be interpreted by some as passive-aggressive remarks about advanced degree nurses, and it could not. I read it and felt slightly insulted, and I... Read More
Mar 30, '02Susy-I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned the closed thread. You wanted to post your feelings and did so eloquently. I was refering to the fact that GreytNurses's latest thread was closed and then SKM-NURSIEPOOH decides to quote here from that closed thread. I don't want to see YOUR thread get all mucked up and just become a continuation of the thread that was just closed.
Mar 30, '02Susy K - There is this pip-squeak guy, who just got a CNA license and an entry level position at a huge hospital who adores you. He adores you because of the learning you generate for him. He loves the way you put down your feelings, and loves to read other nurses responses to them. To that new CNA guy, your expressions mean the world.
This new CNA guy thinks it is more the milli-second to milli-second caring ability you have which determines your value as a health worker. Even though this CNA is "just a CNA" and one day wants to have a BSN like you, he knows his ability (value) to care was created long before he cracked an anatomy book.
He says, "If anyone is throwing around their education credentials they are counterfiet."
Mar 30, '02Originally posted by RNPD
Susy-I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned the closed thread. You wanted to post your feelings and did so eloquently. I was refering to the fact that GreytNurses's latest thread was closed and then SKM-NURSIEPOOH decides to quote here from that closed thread. I don't want to see YOUR thread get all mucked up and just become a continuation of the thread that was just closed.
Hey Mario - kisses to you. :kiss
Mar 30, '02Just for the record I love you all. I do find value in the education that I am receiving in continuing on to a BSN, and I do not appologize for that.
I also find immense value in the experience and education of everyone here. Once again, I will say I learn EVERY day from CNA's, LPN's, ADN, etc. who have experience, education, knowldege and wisdom that I do not.:kiss
RN LPN and BSN are different that does not mean any is less valuable. As I said before I have learned NEW information in each one of these programs. If this is not your experience, then it is not. That does not change the facts for anyone else. :kiss :kiss
I think a lot of us who sound elitist also FEEL as I do but somehow are not always heard that way. Most of us came into this profession with an altruistic heart. Please remember we dont' always express ourselves well or sensitively.
We also can't be aware what other things are simmering inside a listener, which may cloud the reception of our message. I know I have unfairly exploded at a nurse's innocent remarks because I ALREADY had hurt feels about something else. AND come to find out the first thing I was hurt about was also a misinterpetation on my part. Sometimes I take myself too seriously and I need to lighten up. :imbar That is not to say my feelings were hurt here. I just became disgusted and changed my email notification.Last edit by Agnus on Mar 31, '02
Mar 30, '02Susy, you go girl.
Yep, it's true....can't say you're a BSN and that you're proud of your degree on this website without being accused of being 'elitist' or 'snobby' or a nurse who does no work or has no skills. It's so totally acceptable to bash a BSN nurse here that it's almost en vogue.
It's not unusual, though. I actually went out of my way when waiting tables during college to conceal the fact that I was a university student so that my fellow co-workers would stay off my back about being (in their minds) a 'rich little college girl.' Never mind the fact that I wasn't 'rich,' wasn't snobby, and didn't look down on them for not going to college....didn't matter.
I agree with you wholly and am sick and tired of not being 'allowed' to be proud of my degree on this site. So, let 'em call us 'elitist,' 'closed-minded (loved THAT one....interesting logic, or lack thereof...),' 'snobby' and say that we have no skills, yadda yadda yadda. Whatever. Be angry, be hostile, say whatever you want....I'm proud of my degree, I'm proud of my accomplishments, I'm a good nurse, and I refuse to apologize for any of it.
Mar 30, '02...Should I input this discussion or not? I certainly don't want to offend anyone or ruffle any feathers... I haven't read the prior threads, but will guess that this is "a conflict of initials"... Hence, I will not then tell you mine...
I am a well-qualified, very experienced NURSE! I have worked with, for, above, below, been-oriented-by and oriented nurses of all educational backgrounds... AND I have seen good and bad nurses from all types of programs - those who care deeply about others, and those who care mostly about theirselves... I have known "high-tech" or very knowledgeable nurses without human compassion, and other nurses with much less knowledge, skill, or education who brought such warmth and compassion to each bedside that I marveled at their care...
I have excelled in many areas of nursing that require the most sophisticated clinical expertise and technical skills... But, have always felt most gratified, valuable, or personally rewarded at "the bedside"... where nurses and patients are just 2 people, a touch or a tear can convey a thousand words or fears, and mere initials on a name tag are meaningless... I have helped heal the living, touched the hearts of the dying... and hence, matured and become a better person and nurse from these experiences...
I have had many great moments of joy and many of deep sorrow and pain... I have questioned every aspect of life, death, and the-in-between... I have searched my soul for answers, wanted to run and hide, and come back again and again...
....the wonder of serving is when we meet the needs of others, forgetting about our own, and yet somehow in the process - meet our own needs too...
Mar 30, '02I don't begrudge anyone their initials... mine are ADN, for now. The only thing I ask from my coworkers is a 100% effort to nurse the ill in our unit, and to do so without thinking that a degree difference makes one a better bedside nurse than another. There is much more involved in the technical aspect of nursing than a degree.
NOW, that said, I DO believe that it would be beneficial for ALL nurses if those that are in the "upper ranks" with advanced degrees would at least have some decent bedside experience before becoming managers and telling those below them how to nurse with less, when they (the manager) can't nurse her/his way out of a wet paper sack! (Forgive the errors...)
Lastly, I have great respect and regard for those who have gone through the lengths it takes to get through an advanced degree program. I'm slowly ticking away at mine myself, with the hopes of teaching one day. I think EVERY nurse needs to be proud of his/her initials, no matter what they are. I worked hard for my little ol' ADN, and I'm a damned good nurse if I do say so myself.
Some of the best nurses I've seen have NOT had advanced degrees, and some of the worst I've seen HAVE. BUT, it also goes the other way. I guess it just depends on the person and how motivated they are to make the effort to be the difference in a patient's life, a student's life, whoever's life.
I guess to sum it up, it all depends on who you are inside, despite the degree. If you're dedicated, then be proud of yourself, no matter what your level of education!
(Now stepping down off the soap box.)
Mar 30, '02To anyone who does not appreciate a cynical view of this thread . . . please stop reading . . . now.
Susi, I can hear the frustration in your voice/words . . . but I believe you should be far less concerned about how others percieve you or your accomplishments and concentrate on what is obviously your passion in life, nursing.
Mar 31, '02QUOTE:Originally posted by shay
Yep, it's true....can't say you're a BSN and that you're proud of your degree on this website without being accused of being 'elitist' or 'snobby' or a nurse who does no work or has no skills. It's so totally acceptable to bash a BSN nurse here that it's almost en vogue...Shay
As I've said before, the point is totally missed. No one on this thread or on the other recently closed thread are bashing or attacking the BSNs and Advance Level Degree Nurses & no one is against continued education. The comments made was against those individuals whom "look-down" on the lower level, non-degree nurses & have made their point of view known. It wasn't in anyway directed at BSNs and Advance Level Degree Nurses as a whole. I'm currently a BSN student with designs to further my education by specializing in anesthesia...be it MSN level or beyond. So naturally, I have no ill feelings towards BSNs or Advanced Level Degree Nurses. I just wish that everyone can read each other's posts without having to take one side or the other. I wished that when people read the posts, they can keep an open mind on a topic that's near & dear to the heart without thinking that someone is attacking.
QUOTE: It's not unusual, though. I actually went out of my way when waiting tables during college to conceal the fact that I was a university student so that my fellow co-workers would stay off my back about being (in their minds) a 'rich little college girl.' Never mind the fact that I wasn't 'rich,' wasn't snobby, and didn't look down on them for not going to college....didn't matter...Shay
I commend your attitude as it is my own. I've always maintained my professionalism whenever I'm at work, in school, or writing on this board. I've always take care as to how I communicate my messages. It seems that what I wrote was taken out of context...so, I'm taking steps to have those of you who didn't understand me before to understand me now.
QUOTE: I agree with you wholly and am sick and tired of not being 'allowed' to be proud of my degree on this site...Shay
No one is saying that you (meaning BSNs or Advance Level Degree Nurses) can't express how proud you are of your accomplishments. I think that a lot of us are in awe of all the various specialities & are truely interested in hearing everyone's experiences. That's why we all come here to All Nurses BB to read what's going on in our profession. By reading these post, may give that person the inspiration needed to take that next step in their education & career.
QUOTE: So, let 'em call us 'elitist,' 'closed-minded (loved THAT one....interesting logic, or lack thereof...),' 'snobby' and say that we have no skills, yadda yadda yadda. Whatever. Be angry, be hostile, say whatever you want....Shay
It's to those "closed minded" or "snobby" individuals whom I'm impluring to. I ask them to change their narrow view their fellow nurses.
QUOTE:I'm proud of my degree, I'm proud of my accomplishments, I'm a good nurse, and I refuse to apologize for any of it...Shay
Yes. be proud, be very proud of who you are & of what you do...being a nurse is one of the most selfless career that one can strive to achieve. No one needs to apologize for being proud of their accomplishments...NO ONE!
Mar 31, '02Originally posted by fergus51
Why is it bragging and snobbery for a nurse to be proud of her education? Nurses are such a discouraged bunch I say be proud of whatever you can, whether it be education, experience, fashion sense, cooking ability, scrub patterns, whatever!! I wish people would realize that pride in your accomplishments doesn't equal insults to someone else. Be proud, be happy with yourself and encourage others to be proud and happy with themselves.
Mar 31, '02Originally posted by Susy K
And also...comments, whether they are from an LPN or an RN, about one's usefulness or worth should NOT be tolerated. And those who choose to defend themselves against such comments should not be seen as evil.
Would you be so kind as to elaborate on your point that of one's usefulness or worth (LPN or RN) SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED? Did you really mean that or did you mean that their usefulness or worth SHOULD BE TOLERATED?
I just want to understand you correctly - thanks...Moe.
Mar 31, '02In 1923 Josephine Clara Goldmark published a paper called Nursing and Nursing education in the United States. She had examined more than 70 schools over 4 years. This report became generally known as the Winslow-Goldmark report. It recommended that the bachlor degree be the entry level for nurses. It was the reason thatbecame affliated with university affliations and national accrediation procedures. It was not until 1978 that the ANA resolved that the minimum preparation for entry into professional practice should be the baccalaureate degree in nursing. In 1979 the Committee on Credentialing in Nursing called for the establishment of a free-stading national credentialing center, this was not endorsed by the ANA. It was not until 1982 the NLN endorsed the baccalaureate degree as the minimum preparation for entry into professional nursing practice.
Suzy I am an ADN nurse. I will be going back for my BSN, not because I even particularly want to, but because for my career to go where I want (more independent practice) it is necessary. It is my thought that this profession has got to be one of the slowest moving ones around. The other problem is that nurses have almost from the beginning given their power away. Lavinia Dock was the only nurse from the beginning of the profession that advocated national legislation controlling the practice of nursing. Because that never happened individual states started putting practice acts into place, and it has to be noticed by anyone who has been on the board long those standards truly vary from state to state. There have been, and continues to be, too many in this profession who are unwilling to move forward. It is my thought that the only way that will change is for nurses like yourself who are passionate to not melt away into acadamia, it is vital, absolutely vital that you instead become an activist and an advocate for your profession.
I have more I would like to say, but it is late and the Easter Bunny has got to put out stuff for my little one and I still have to get up and go to services in the morning.
The biggest thing I can say is that nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change in the profession I love as long as no one really wants to get involved and force change.
Mar 31, '02Originally posted by RNPD
GreytNurse's first thread was closed, and now this latest one has been closed as well-and there is a reason. I would like to respond to some of the things she said, but I respect the moderator's decision to close the thread, since it was starting to get as bad as the first. So although I had the quote from her all typed out I refrained from posting it here, since that would defeat the purpose of closing the thread. But apparently some people just can't let it go.
Originally posted by RNPD
....My final message, be proud of who you are, and what you have accomplished. You don't need anyone to validate you as a nurse or more importantly as a human being, except yourself!
I believe that this is the overall message that the LPNs here were trying to convey! Everyone should be proud of what they've accomplished in their nursing career, no matter what level. "-SKM-NURSIEPOOH
No one is saying that an LPN shouldn't be as proud as a BSN.
Unfortunately, the LPN referred to here DOES seem to need the validation of others-particularly those with advanced degrees. Otherwise why so defensive? Why continue to post-especially in a General disscussion area-about how they will never be accepted and how RNs just don't get it?
If we all truly just do the jobs at the levels our education prepared us for, and respect each other's work and acomplishments as meaningful, we would all get along. No one has to be better, all work is equally important.
A lot of LPNs whom have worked faithfully in hospitals for many years, were laid-off & weaned out because hospital administrators, in their infinite wisdom, told them that their education was either worthless, useless, not enough or simply, not wanted. I think the root to a lot of hurt feelings & ego's is in this fact...feeling like you've been toss-out...like old - broken things.
Once out of the hospital system, LPNs are told that they're only useful in nursing homes, home heatlh, & in doctors' offices & were discriminated against by hospitals for years. Now, that there's a nursing shortage, the hospital administrators are reconsidering their decision to "get rid" of the LPNs. This issue goes a lot deeper than just how some of the RNs think of LPNs...it's how the whole medical community perceive & utilizes them...one minute they're needed & valued...the next...they're not. It like being a ping-pong ball...back & forward.
You only further add the fuel to the fire when you spoke about "them" meaning the LPNs posting here on the General Discussion Boards...which is supposed to be opened to EVERYBODY...from CNAs, Nursing Students, LPNs, RNS, to MDs. The comment of "them" (LPNs) posting here on the general boards suggests that they aren't welcome or don't have the right to post here & that they should remain in the "special" LPN Corner made for them.
Thats's just another example of where some tact should've been used...you as a professional person know just what you're saying & know just how you're relaying your messages here. You say that the LPNs are slinging inflammatory remarks...I think you really need to recheck your above comment about "them" posting here on the General Discussion Board...& you'll understand their position!