"The Victim" and the "Big Ole Meanie who Made Her Cry" - page 6

i've always wondered why when there's a "communication difficulty," the person who says what they mean and means what they say is usually the one blamed for it. when someone bursts into tears at... Read More

  1. by   PANurseRN1
    It's just as shocking to me and many others when there are numerous threads and posts lambasting older nurses. It's unusual to see posts go in the opposite direction. That doesn't make it right, but perhaps it will make some of the younger members see how the constant rants against older/experienced nurses make some of the members here feel.
  2. by   NurseShelly
    Quote from ruby vee
    i think there is some truth to this. i am shocked by the amount of twenty year olds that do not have jobs or that think it is no big deal to not have some sort of plan for the future! or they think working at a low level job is beneath them. sigh, we all started somewhere.



    this was great and you made great points. call me harsh, call me mean but i really think people have to realize that newbs are still dealing with patients lives. sure we can mentor and guide but let us get them on the ball too!
    when i was precepted, i worked with a bunch of experienced nurses that had a little bit of a reputation for being "mean". were they? no they really were not. they just didn't react well to newbs like myrtle. there were a lot of direct communicators and i learned quickly to take the wise things they told me and use them to my full advantage.

    myrtle should have done the same. now she's alienated 2 nurses. too bad for her.
    i too am shocked by the number of 20-somethings who seem to believe that they deserve (and should have) everything they want right now just because they want it. they don't want to put in their time on nights before moving to days, don't want to "waste time" on an entry level position, and don't want to move into their own apartments because they have all the toys living with mom and dad and can use their paychecks to buy more toys rather than "wasting it" on rent, utilities and groceries!

    what shocks me even more is the folks who have obviously never had any negative feedback in their lives, believe they don't deserve any, and have no idea how to accept it. anytime you say anything they don't like, don't agree with or don't want to hear, they burst into tears or run to the manager saying you're being mean to them. i'm sorry, but no one is perfect, especially not when they're brand new. so how in the world are you going to give them constructive feedback? they'll accuse you of being mean because you've told them something negative and implied (or stated) that they aren't as perfect as mummy and daddy always assured them they were!

    i have enough problems managing my assignment and yours and trying to point out the ways in which you could save time, improve patient care, not kill your patient without worrying about teaching you to accept constructive criticism in an adult manner!
    [/quote]


    i'm sorry. i just find the above so offensive. this is no represents me or any of the other 20-somethings i know. i thought we were talking about myrtle and hortense here. i have yet to experience any of the meaness and rudeness that i've heard happens to newer nurses, and i have almost a year under my belt. constructive criticism on the hand, i have experienced and received well. i just wonder how these feelings about gen x's may carry over into your working relationship them/ us. you could give constructive criticism to any one of my coworkers who aren't as close to thirty as i am, and they don't go run off crying the nm. i witnessed one coworker (just turned 21) be reamed out in front of everyone at the nurses station by another nurse. she professionally put her in her place and went back to pt. care. maybe she cried when she went home, i don't know. what i do know is that she remained, as she always does when i work with her, a professional. and since some of you here seem to have been born a nurse, have patience with those of us that weren't.
  3. by   NurseShelly
    Quote from multicollinarity
    I don't think we are having a generational debate and I don't think we are complaining about 20 somethings. I think the conversation evolved into the average differences between generations regarding hypersensitivity and criticism.

    There is a difference between understanding differences between groups and complaining about individuals.

    I'll leave it at that because I'm not the OP, and this isn't my thread.

    I really do want to apologize if I have offended anyone. I just don't get the feeling that the majority of these posts are an attempt to understand differences btn groups. They're more or less generealizations about people in the 20's being lazy people with a sense of entitlement.
  4. by   Multicollinearity
    Quote from Sophie123
    I really do want to apologize if I have offended anyone. I just don't get the feeling that the majority of these posts are an attempt to understand differences btn groups. They're more or less generealizations about people in the 20's being lazy people with a sense of entitlement.
    Ruby needed to vent about her experience. That is valid and understandable.

    There are real issues regarding each generation. It would be wrong to make assumptions about any particular individual. However, anybody in management will tell you that overall, younger generations are becoming more hypersensitive and fragile regarding criticism. This is a challenge in the work place. In fact, some could interpret your reaction you have posted in this thread as an example.

    This is an area of study within psychology and sociology.

    There was a time when employees did not even consider crying in the workplace. There was a time when people were not so fragile when corrected. They just said "OK" and went about their business. Perhaps it is because younger generations have experienced more freedom of expression and exploration of feelings so much. I see it in places like my psych class where students over-react to grades and seem to have some sort of entitlement attitude. Yes, they do. In addition, they tend to try to turn class discussions into group therapy. These sorts of trends carry over into the workplace.
  5. by   Laurel RN
    In my opinion, I have seen nurses of all ages and experience who just "don't get it". I had a 50 yr old come up to the desk on an extremely busy day when no one had lunch and proclaim, "why is it i'm the only one who does any work around here?!" yet she is the one who is not able to get her work done, frequently causing her co-workers to pick up the slack. If you are not organized and efficient, you always feel overworked and overwhelmed.

    I think open and honest communication is important, whether it's a new nurse or an experienced one. It is much better to have an authority figure talk to you than to have co-workers feeling resentment behind your back. Feedback is a good thing, otherwise, how can we ever improve if we don't know what we need to work on?
  6. by   Kim O'Therapy
    Quote from Freedom42
    A lot has been written about the current crop of twentysomethings being unwilling to put their time in at entry-level jobs in general. They don't believe they should have to earn the privilege of a weekday shift, for example, or have so many years of experience before being promoted to a supervisory experience. They want meaningful work right off the bat; and to their credit, a lot of them are willing to negotiate their way around work they don't want to do. When they can't, they often leave. Unemployment has no stigma. (For what it's worth, Wikipedia has an interesting entry on Gen Xers.)

    None of that applies to Myrtle, nor necessarily to new professionals in any aspect of health care. And we've all worked with twentysomethings who are fantastic and can teach the rest of us a thing or two.

    As for whether people have to pay dues, it's been my experience that people who've got years of experience -- some, not all -- believe that newbies earn their privileges.
    I'm a forty-something nursing student and go to school with "the self-esteem generation." Not all, but most want their degrees on a silver platter. I feel that tact and understanding are necessary in communication; however, it seems to me that most use whatever communication skills they DO have to get out of doing any real work. Sorry, off topic. Can you tell I had a bad day in clinicals?
  7. by   Kim O'Therapy
    Quote from multicollinarity
    Actually, this topic of sensitivity to criticism and tendency towards tears came up in a psych class I'm taking. The professor said that studies have been done that show the self-esteem movement in the 80's and 90's with small children has created a generation with distorted self-esteem. You know - the children who all received trophies on their soccer teams...every single one...no matter how good or bad they were...or if they showed up much. The Dr. gave specific examples of these studies.

    The professor said that this is manifesting primarily with the Millennial generation now. The Millennials are the generation more recent than the gen X'ers. If anything, gen X'ers have a need for autonomy and efficiency. The trend in parenting and eduction was starting a bit with the Gen X generation, but not nearly to the degree as with the Millennials.
    [BANANA]Great post! I totally agree with you![/BANANA]
  8. by   Cattitude
    Quote from multicollinarity
    Ruby needed to vent about her experience. That is valid and understandable.

    There are real issues regarding each generation. It would be wrong to make assumptions about any particular individual. However, anybody in management will tell you that overall, younger generations are becoming more hypersensitive and fragile regarding criticism. This is a challenge in the work place. In fact, some could interpret your reaction you have posted in this thread as an example.

    This is an area of study within psychology and sociology.

    .
    Well said. I don't think anyone is picking on twenty year olds here. We all know cases where older nurses as well have been inappropriate in the workplace as well.

    However as you stated, overall it tends to be a trend towards the younger generations. And hey, I'm only 38! To add to that, I have a sister who is 18. I see this hypersensitive attitude in her as well. Now myself and my other 34 year old sister were both working as teens all throughout high school. My little sister worked ONE summer, that's it. I have voiced my many concerns regarding her lack of enthusiasm towards working but to no avail. It IS a difference in generations.

    I can definitely see her breaking down in the workplace. She can NOT handle criticism at all. Now this is not to say that all young people are the same but it is something I have seen before. I have not seen this as much with older nurses. Laziness? Yes. Whining? Yes. But tears, running to the boss and generally non communicating, NO.
  9. by   Tweety
    Quote from oramar
    I have lived with that spoiled boomer perception since I was a child. The people who first describe people my age as self centered were the WWII generation and their parents. People of the WWII generation who wrote about those things were usually better educated and from a middle classs or upper middle class white collar or professional background. They were mostly speaking of their own children who they considered spoiled brats who had life a lot easier than they did. I was born in '48 and am from a blue collar back ground. Most boomers especially early boomer born between '46 and '55 were not from middle and upper middle class backgrounds but from lower middle class backgrounds just like me, a lot were just plane poor. Honestly, I swear to you life was really hard when I was young. I was hungry at times, I was cold at times, at times I couldn't get to school cause I had no coat or boots. When I did get to school I would hide in a stairwell at lunch so I would not smell the food cooking because I did not have money for lunch, there was no food at home to brown bag it. The really difficult days were sporatic, in the '50s and early '60 the economy was very slow at times and better at other times. When the mills were working more we lived better. I am not complaining, I had it much better than people I knew who were bone jarringly poor every day of the week, every week of the year. One of the people I knew as "one of those poor kids" is my DH. His father was shell shocked during WWII and had PTS very bad and could not hold down a job. My husband's parents had six children who were very poorly fed and sheltered indeed. My hubby's strongest memory is of being homeless and standing in the snow with his mother and siblings with no where to go. His father was most likely lying dead drunk in a gutter somewhere. Believe it or not, neither of us has suffered any permanant damage from tough times. If anything we are both tough as nails. We are now comfortably middle class with nice paid for home, nice pensions and well educated, well balanced adult children. I just am afraid that everyone believes what they hear about people my age. I don't believe everything I hear about 30 somethings, or 20 somethings. Matter of fact I am really good at recognizing sterotypes for what they are and am slow to pass judgement.
    I'm sorry the times were tough. Indeed there were tough times for many people, and times still are hard. The fact is that those times were the greatest economic surge of a single country in the history of the world. No not everyone was middle class, but the middle rose and took over the country, suburbs popped up everywhere, highways became clogged, it was good times like the world had never seen. And it did indeed shape the minds of the boomers.
    Last edit by Tweety on Apr 2, '07
  10. by   Tweety
    Quote from Ruby Vee
    [B]I think there is some truth to this. I am shocked by the amount of twenty year olds that do not have jobs or that think it is no big deal to not have some sort of plan for the future!/B]
    I'm dismayed at the number of boomers with no plan for the future as well. Many of us had no plan for the future when we were the 20 somethings judged by the older generation and we have no better plan now that we're 40 to 60something year old. The poor 20-somethings we complain about are going to have to pay the price for our indulgence, lack of saving and planning. 30 million of us are reaching retirement age with nothing in the bank. Another 30 million with inadequate reserves.
  11. by   NurseShelly
    Quote from multicollinarity
    ruby needed to vent about her experience. that is valid and understandable.

    there are real issues regarding each generation. it would be wrong to make assumptions about any particular individual. however, anybody in management will tell you that overall, younger generations are becoming more hypersensitive and fragile regarding criticism. this is a challenge in the work place. in fact, some could interpret your reaction you have posted in this thread as an example.

    this is an area of study within psychology and sociology.

    there was a time when employees did not even consider crying in the workplace. there was a time when people were not so fragile when corrected. they just said "ok" and went about their business. perhaps it is because younger generations have experienced more freedom of expression and exploration of feelings so much. i see it in places like my psych class where students over-react to grades and seem to have some sort of entitlement attitude. yes, they do. in addition, they tend to try to turn class discussions into group therapy. these sorts of trends carry over into the workplace.
    i don't think my reaction to this post is fragile or hypersentive at all. i totally understand someone needing to vent about an experience. but have you read some of the post here? what does this:

    i too am shocked by the number of 20-somethings who seem to believe that they deserve (and should have) everything they want right now just because they want it. they don't want to put in their time on nights before moving to days, don't want to "waste time" on an entry level position, and don't want to move into their own apartments because they have all the toys living with mom and dad and can use their paychecks to buy more toys rather than "wasting it" on rent, utilities and groceries!

    what shocks me even more is the folks who have obviously never had any negative feedback in their lives, believe they don't deserve any, and have no idea how to accept it. anytime you say anything they don't like, don't agree with or don't want to hear, they burst into tears or run to the manager saying you're being mean to them. i'm sorry, but no one is perfect, especially not when they're brand new. so how in the world are you going to give them constructive feedback? they'll accuse you of being mean because you've told them something negative and implied (or stated) that they aren't as perfect as mummy and daddy always assured them they were!

    have to do with venting about a situation at work? i understand as you've stated that this is an area within psych/ soc. i don't expect everyone to agree with me. i'm just stating my opinion like everyone else. believe me ruby, i know you don't mean every 20 something on the planet. i'm just responding to some of the posts here is all.
  12. by   Freedom42
    Last year I took a course in developmental psychology. The professor was fond of reminding us that older generations have complained about younger generations since Roman times.

    I don't think anyone posting here means to pick on twentysomethings; in fact, I was intrigued by an early poster who said (s)he supervises four women in their fifties, and that comes with challenges of its own. (Haven't we all worked with the person who does something simply because "that's the way it's always been done?") I think what these posts highlight are perceptions, as much about those who hold them as those who are the targets of them.
  13. by   flashpoint
    I guess I am in the minority here. I'm all for telling people exactly how it is, exactly how they are doing, and exactly what needs to be done, but I think it needs to be done in an appropriate manner. I used to work with a nurse who would do chart checks and walk up to other nurses and say things like, "I can't read your ******* handwriting. Get your *** back to third grade or start printing." Sure, the nurse needed to be told that everyone was having trouble reading her handwriting, but she didn't need to be told in that manner. There were a lot of other things she said, that seemed pretty harsh too, that one jsut stands out in my mind today. I also think it is important to tell people what they are doing wrong right away. When people wait until they are tired and overworked and are just sick of someone doing what they are doing, feelings get hurt. I handle criticism pretty well when it is fair...and it's not fair to yell, "You are so slow. Are you really that stupid that you can't get it done?" when you could simply say, "You really need to pick up the pace on getting patients called back. When they have to wait a long time for you to call back, they get frustrated and call back and yell at the receptionist." It's also important to tell people what they can do to correct what they are doing wrong...sometimes new nurses don't realize they are taking too much time doing baths or that they don't need to do a full head to toe assessment every two hours.
    Last edit by flashpoint on Apr 3, '07

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