"Just" a 2-year degree - page 6

Stopped at local pharmacy to pick up prescription. Asked pharm tech how her daughter was (she's a traveling nurse); she said great, we briefly discussed how she's deciding between staying and moving... Read More

  1. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from RNsRWe
    At the risk of taking the bait and volleying the nasties, I'll explain it simply: I vented my frustration at having someone who had more 'inside' knowledge than the general public, a pharmacy technician, consider the Associates RN equivalent to a bulls**t humanities degree. That considering we "only" went to school for two years, we ought to be down on our knees grateful for the dollars we receive each week. I was venting my frustration at the misconception that such a degree is passed as easily as most any other Associates degree, and that in fact it really only did take two years.

    The people who responded early in this thread got that. Those who twisted my intent to mean that two year ADN and four year BSN degrees are equivalent did so on their own.

    I don't need to hear any more arguments, cogent or otherwise, for making BSN entry-level to practice. I didn't state my own opinion on that topic, either. It wasn't relevant to the discussion at hand.

    Maybe now you'll understand why I am dismayed to see the thread led down this way. Maybe not...
    I'll be honest here, and I don't mean any disrespect in any way...I want to say that first.

    I think you are totally over-reacting to what the pharmacy tech said, because what she said was 100% ACCURATE.

    If you look at 2-year degree Nursing programs that are at hospitals and community colleges and compare them with the salaries of about every other major they have, RN's make almost DOUBLE what the other 2-year degree programs make.

    They make MORE than a huge percentage of 4-year degrees, because keep in mind...it's posted everywhere on this message board that new grad BSN's and ASN RN's make the same salary.

    So, for your own sanity, don't read more into what she said than what she said. She didn't say you weren't educated or qualified to do your job...that was words that you interpreted in your original post and never came out of the pharmacy tech's mouth. She said that you made good money for "just" a 2- year degree. Two years isn't a long time, when you compare it with 4 years, and she was right because you read more into her statement than what existed. Did it occur to you that she might have received her pharmacy tech certification from a 2 year college and was probably jealous that you were making far more than she did, and she possibly had the same level of education that you have?

    BE PROUD of the fact that you are an RN and not how many years you went to school, what difference does it make how long you spent in school?

    Someone else posted on the board somewhere, where the CNA's get dumped on by the LPN's and the LPN's get dumped on by the RN's and the RN's get dumped on by the NP's and so on.

    Know now that there will always be people more educated than you, more educated than people like me, more educated than the doctors, it never ends.

    Again, be proud of what you are and what you have accomplished because there is nothing wrong with obtaining ANY level of education.
    Last edit by BSNtobe2009 on Oct 9, '06
  2. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from lindarn
    No one is saying anyone is less than adequate.
    Ah, so what was that remark about new grads being "suckers"??????
  3. by   Gods child
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    I'll be honest here, and I don't mean any disrespect in any way...I want to say that first.

    I think you are totally over-reacting to what the pharmacy tech said, because what she said was 100% ACCURATE.

    If you look at 2-year degree Nursing programs that are at hospitals and community colleges and compare them with the salaries of about every other major they have, RN's make almost DOUBLE what the other 2-year degree programs make.

    They make MORE than a huge percentage of 4-year degrees, because keep in mind...it's posted everywhere on this message board that new grad BSN's and ASN RN's make the same salary.

    So, for your own sanity, don't read more into what she said than what she said. She didn't say you weren't educated or qualified to do your job...that was words that you interpreted in your original post and never came out of the pharmacy tech's mouth. She said that you made good money for "just" a 2- year degree. Two years isn't a long time, when you compare it with 4 years, and she was right because you read more into her statement than what existed. Did it occur to you that she might have received her pharmacy tech certification from a 2 year college and was probably jealous that you were making far more than she did, and she possibly had the same level of education that you have?

    BE PROUD of the fact that you are an RN and not how many years you went to school, what difference does it make how long you spent in school?

    Someone else posted on the board somewhere, where the CNA's get dumped on by the LPN's and the LPN's get dumped on by the RN's and the RN's get dumped on by the NP's and so on.

    Know now that there will always be people more educated than you, more educated than people like me, more educated than the doctors, it never ends.

    Again, be proud of what you are and what you have accomplished because there is nothing wrong with obtaining ANY level of education.


    I was thinking the same thing. Although earning an ADN may take some people longer than two years to complete, it is still considered a two year degree.
  4. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from RNsRWe
    Thank you to all who have responded to the original topic; it is appreciated. Those who wish to turn it on its side and argue about who's better, ADN vs BSN, I'll just ask you to refrain. It truly is a wasted discussion on both sides.

    I guess this thread has already run its natural course and perhaps it should be stopped before something gets ugly?
    Agreeing with you, unfortunately, certain people take threads like this and use it as an opportunity to degrade and insult others.
  5. by   tiredfeetED
    No matter what field you are there is someone that always has to knock down your choice of degree...I was in a ADN program and had a customer explain to me that she would rather have someone with a 4 year degree take care of her because they had more classes..Now I am a FNP student and hear comments to the same tone "if im going to pay for a doctor, I want to see a doctor". Sometimes you have to SMILE !!!
  6. by   Kinky Slinky RN
    It pisses me off like no other when someone refers to a two year program as an "easy" nursing program or in this case "just" a 2 yr degree...

    I go to El Centro College, part of Dallas County Community Colleges... and I can't TELL YOU how many people are DENIED acceptance into El Centro's nursing program, so they resort to going to the 4 year programs...

    They bust our butts SO much harder than the 4 years around here... I've even seen nurses in the hospital that will refuse to work with students that aren't from a two year program because they really can't handle too much and quite a few are clinically inept... The professors at the 4 yrs also tell their students not to even COMPARE themselves with us because they won't even come close to our clinical abilities coming OUT of SCHOOL until at least 6 months of working as a full time RN...

    In order to even THINK about getting into our program, you are required to have a 4.0 GPA on all your pre-reqs... If you don't, you can forget it... Our MINIMUM passing grade is a 78.. Our HESI requirements are even HIGHER than any other college nearby! Just a few weeks ago I had a friend that said I went to the "easy" nursing school. I flipped. First, she couldn't even get INTO my college, that's why she went to the BSN... And second, the NCLEX passing rate is a 97% at my school vs. a 91% at most of the BSN programs around here...

    What is boils down to... you don't need all those BS courses to make you a safe, efficient, and knowledgeable nurse.. how is history, government, statistics, upper level math, all of those BS classes EVER.. EVER going to come into play in NURSING... fact is, ITS NOT.. thats HOW the two year degree came about =)

    And about getting more opportunities if you have a BSN... I am applying for RN positions now, and.... I haven't noticed any place that I am not allowed to work because I will have an ADN... In fact... I was one of the first people offered a position at PARKLAND's ER & L/D... the L&D being the 2nd busiest in the WORLD... The only opportunities that we MAY be denied.. is charge nurse (which I've seen ADNs assume that role on MULTIPLE occasions), and a nurse manager...

    IN MY OPINION, if you plan to STAY an RN and decide against furthering your education, I think the best route to obtain your RN is with an ADN... Simply because why spend ALL of the money and the EXTRA YEAR to get a BSN, when really.. we're all paid the same... BSNs don't get paid any more than ADNs.. So... ADN is CHEAPER and FASTER... and better
  7. by   AggieQT
    Ok So I have a question.... if the requirements are so high to get into your school (and obviously you worked your tail off to make all As in your prereqs) why then did you go for an ADN program and not a BSN program?
    I mean we cant change the way the world works, and most HR departments tend to hire BSN over ADN (at least around where I live they do) if both canidates are equal in experience... so ya why did you choose ADN... (no attack intended just an innocent question)
  8. by   Tweety
    Quote from KiNKy sLiNkY
    What is boils down to... you don't need all those BS courses to make you a safe, efficient, and knowledgeable nurse.. how is history, government, statistics, upper level math, all of those BS classes EVER.. EVER going to come into play in NURSING... fact is, ITS NOT.. thats HOW the two year degree came about =)

    And about getting more opportunities if you have a BSN... I am applying for RN positions now, and.... I haven't noticed any place that I am not allowed to work because I will have an ADN... In fact... I was one of the first people offered a position at PARKLAND's ER & L/D... the L&D being the 2nd busiest in the WORLD... The only opportunities that we MAY be denied.. is charge nurse (which I've seen ADNs assume that role on MULTIPLE occasions), and a nurse manager...

    IN MY OPINION, if you plan to STAY an RN and decide against furthering your education, I think the best route to obtain your RN is with an ADN... Simply because why spend ALL of the money and the EXTRA YEAR to get a BSN, when really.. we're all paid the same... BSNs don't get paid any more than ADNs.. So... ADN is CHEAPER and FASTER... and better
    I'll ignore your last presumption that an ADN is better than a BSN, because you're allowed that opinion and I respect that. I would get really angry too if someone said the ADN program was "easy". To date it it's the hardest thing I have ever done.

    However, please don't presume that the difference between the BSN and ADN is a few BS courses like history, government and math. It includes courses such as nursing research, community health, leadership and in NLN approved programs it includes more detailed assessment and patho. courses. Do these courses make the person a better bedside nurse than an ADN?.....of course not. But please don't insult the BSN program with such presumptions that it's just a few irrellavent courses.

    You're very correct that ADN grads enjoy the same job opportunities at the same salary as a BSN nurse. Any place that is looking for an RN doesn't really care where you degree is from and like you said some recruiters have a preference for the ADN, thinking (falsely in most cases) that BSNs don't get enough clinical time. Of course there are places like the poster above where the opposite is the case. Around here, it doesn't matter.

    However, there is value in getting the BSN for opportunities away from the bedside, and I find myself with 15 years as ADN ready to do something different, and I feel the BSN will offer me some opportunties. The BSN required jobs in my hospital are in education, case management, quality, management, risk management, and patient safety. ADN's need not apply.

    However, in my program I know there are ADNs doing all sorts of things, so I guess it just depends on where you are.

    I certainly don't want to say one degree is better, and as an ADN graduate I know how tough and demanding that degree is and it's done me very well and I'm proud of it. But to build up my esteem at having an ADN, I don't need to tear down the value of the BSN.


    Back to our regularly scheduled show.
    Last edit by Tweety on Oct 9, '06
  9. by   Works2xs
    In my previous career, it was a straight forward assumption that higher education equated to higher pay levels. Yes, there were those who made money out of proportion to thier peers, but that was fairly rare and typically limited to those who were prodigies or people who worked/ate/drank their job to some gawd-awful degree.

    So it doesn't strike me as odd that the pharm tech would say the equivalent of "wow! that's good pay for a two-year degree". Isn't that a good thing? If you were a teacher, you'd need a master's degree to make the same sort of starting pay that a ADN can get (at least in my area). The fact that it doesn't make any appreciable difference if you have a ADN or a BSN should be the real surprise.
  10. by   txspadequeenRN
    It is hard to get into any nursing school in the DFW area. Most of the people I talk to on here do not have a 4.0 and are in at El Centro. I thought the average was more like 3.7 or so. Anyway , it is just about even across the board here in the DFW area. Just for the record Iwas told by the nursing admissions office that the GPA requirments for the transition program are not all that stiff. Someone else mentioned that most everyone that applied to the transition program got in at DCC. Not all BSN grads and ADN grads are paid the same either.. depends on your positon and location. I dont think it makes a hill of beans if you have a ADN or BSN except if you want in upper management or you want to be a CRNA something along that line. BSN schools are not easy to get into so Im not sure where all that is coming from. They may have more open slots to fill and therefore allow more students but easier .. I dont know about that. Nursing programs with a transition programs often allow slots for those LVN - RN students to join the generic program students and that cuts down on the slots during admission as well. There is also more involved to a BSN program than extra courses in Hist or Gov, you have all kinds of upper level nursing courses you are required to take. I personally could care less where I go .. no preferance here. Even though I have all the pre-classes done for my BSN ..I still would rather do the ADN route to get done faster then take the online BSN course. But my intentions are headed to Corp nursing..




    to a two year program as an "easy" nursing program or in this case "just" a 2 yr degree...

    I go to El Centro College, part of Dallas County Community Colleges... and I can't TELL YOU how many people are DENIED acceptance into El Centro's nursing program, so they resort to going to the 4 year programs...

    They bust our butts SO much harder than the 4 years around here... I've even seen nurses in the hospital that will refuse to work with students that aren't from a two year program because they really can't handle too much and quite a few are clinically inept... The professors at the 4 yrs also tell their students not to even COMPARE themselves with us because they won't even come close to our clinical abilities coming OUT of SCHOOL until at least 6 months of working as a full time RN...

    In order to even THINK about getting into our program, you are required to have a 4.0 GPA on all your pre-reqs... If you don't, you can forget it... Our MINIMUM passing grade is a 78.. Our HESI requirements are even HIGHER than any other college nearby! Just a few weeks ago I had a friend that said I went to the "easy" nursing school. I flipped. First, she couldn't even get INTO my college, that's why she went to the BSN... And second, the NCLEX passing rate is a 97% at my school vs. a 91% at most of the BSN programs around here...

    What is boils down to... you don't need all those BS courses to make you a safe, efficient, and knowledgeable nurse.. how is history, government, statistics, upper level math, all of those BS classes EVER.. EVER going to come into play in NURSING... fact is, ITS NOT.. thats HOW the two year degree came about =)

    And about getting more opportunities if you have a BSN... I am applying for RN positions now, and.... I haven't noticed any place that I am not allowed to work because I will have an ADN... In fact... I was one of the first people offered a position at PARKLAND's ER & L/D... the L&D being the 2nd busiest in the WORLD... The only opportunities that we MAY be denied.. is charge nurse (which I've seen ADNs assume that role on MULTIPLE occasions), and a nurse manager...

    IN MY OPINION, if you plan to STAY an RN and decide against furthering your education, I think the best route to obtain your RN is with an ADN... Simply because why spend ALL of the money and the EXTRA YEAR to get a BSN, when really.. we're all paid the same... BSNs don't get paid any more than ADNs.. So... ADN is CHEAPER and FASTER... and better [/quote]
  11. by   rn/writer
    Unfortunately, this thread will probably be shut down soon. It seems that whenever the subject of ADN vs. BSN comes up, it turns ugly.

    What bothers me most about this ongoing debate is that when all is said and done, it's nurses fighting other nurses.

    I can't help but wonder if the other disciplines pick up the lack of respect we have within our own ranks and feel free to jump on the bandwagon.
  12. by   RNsRWe
    Quote from rn/writer
    unfortunately, this thread will probably be shut down soon. it seems that whenever the subject of adn vs. bsn comes up, it turns ugly.

    what bothers me most about this ongoing debate is that when all is said and done, it's nurses fighting other nurses.

    i can't help but wonder if the other disciplines pick up the lack of respect we have within our own ranks and feel free to jump on the bandwagon.
    agreed....and i'm the one who started this thing! well, this thread anyway, not the current argument.

    to the posters who have recently explained the pharm tech's point of view, i truly appreciate it. i probably was overreacting, and probably a little overly sensitive to the tone of her comments. on paper, it does look less grating (or even like nothing) but in person, well....i felt it as a put-down.

    perhaps it came out of her own experience with her own 2-year degree, maybe current or maybe something in her past. i don't know. i hear what you have said about not reading into her comments what wasn't there....it's only because i could hear her tone and get a sense that there was a bit of "something" there that it bothered me at all. and, probably, because i do have a bullsh**t associates degree in another field already <grin> and i know the difference between that and my rn, my teeth gritted. i expected someone sort of "in the field" to know that, too, but i'll get over it, i promise

    thanks for the feedback on my original vent.
  13. by   scaredofshots
    TWO YEARS? Where did you all go to school?? When I graduate with my R N I will have a total of THREE years. One year for pre req's and two years nursing... If I choose I can get another year and add the letter BS to my title...:mortarboard:

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