"Just" a 2-year degree - page 11

Stopped at local pharmacy to pick up prescription. Asked pharm tech how her daughter was (she's a traveling nurse); she said great, we briefly discussed how she's deciding between staying and moving... Read More

  1. by   angel337
    i can see both sides to this debate, but what i don't understand is why get offended if someone says "wow for a community college degree, you guys make good money" ITS TRUE. i don't think it's an insult, actually it's a compliment. if you don't think making>50k a year with a 2 year degree is good, i say quit nursing and try to make the same money with say an AA in sociology. I have a BSN. but i also have student loans that my ADN coworkers don't have. i'm not complaining because no matter what, i still feel it was a good investment.
  2. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    i can see both sides to this debate, but what i don't understand is why get offended if someone says "wow for a community college degree, you guys make good money" ITS TRUE. i don't think it's an insult, actually it's a compliment.
    I take more offense at the money aspect of it, when that is the first response when someone hears i'm a nurse. Honestly, the majority of the responses i get when someone hears i'm a nurse is something along the lines of the "good money", as if the income earning is what makes me worthy or something to them (we won't even discuss the Einstein <sarcasm> responses i get from some 'people' once they learn that i'm an LPN:stone ). That's not why i got into nursing, and to boil my degree or future degrees down to income is an insult to my education, continuing education, and the desire that has always been #1 to me, to be a nurse.

    And let's be honest here, if i were working soley for money and lots of it, nursing would not be where i would turn (which is my reply to the "oh good money" remarks).
  3. by   smk1
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    The reason I posted this is because I think it's very relevant to the discussion at hand. If you go back and read the original question, the pharm tech said:

    "well, you guys here make really good money with just a two year degree"

    Somehow, that was translated in this thread into the pharm tech stating that the RN wasn't qualified, that she didn't work hard for her degree, that "I spent way more than 2 years on it", but I maintain, and still maintain, that what the PT said was correct and not meant to be insulting.

    Then this started "morphing" into posts regarding "well at my school we had to take......" the general public is not going to be aware, and doesn't need to be aware, of the individual admission/graduation policies of your local ASN program.

    You are 100% correct on the income issue, and I did mention this in previous posts in this thread. That was what made the PT's comment even more correct.

    I was drawing a comparison to what takes place at a University level so people can understand that this same type of conversation as to how many years someone takes to complete their degree, doesn't take place on ANY other educational level with any other profession, regardless of how long someone spent getting their degree. People should feel comfortable with their level of education and expertise and not feel they have to go through life corrrecting everyone.


    I just don't think you need to educate us on what goes on at the university level. Many people on this board already know because they have been there. I guarantee you it goes on at the university level. Take a look over at SDN and see the primping and preening that goes on between Chiro/ND, PA/NP, PA or NP vs MD/DO, DO vs MD, MD vs DMD, CRNA/AA the list goes on and on and on... and these are masters level and above degree levels. The fact is that it is very misleading to allow people to think that the majority of ADN programs can be completed in 2 years when many are not set up that way at all and require more credits than a normal AA degree would. I was mislead as well, didn't change my plans, but at first I was disappointed to see how long it would really take and how many credits I would be paying for. Comparing a pharmacy tech degree to an ADN is just ludicrous and the person who made the comparison more than likely knew it. The level of the classes are different as well as the length of time. You are simply wrong in thinking that this conversation does not occur in any other profession or at the university level. It does all the time.
    Last edit by smk1 on Oct 14, '06
  4. by   angel337
    Quote from Marie_LPN
    I take more offense at the money aspect of it, when that is the first response when someone hears i'm a nurse. Honestly, the majority of the responses i get when someone hears i'm a nurse is something along the lines of the "good money", as if the income earning is what makes me worthy or something to them (we won't even discuss the Einstein <sarcasm> responses i get from some 'people' once they learn that i'm an LPN:stone ). That's not why i got into nursing, and to boil my degree or future degrees down to income is an insult to my education, continuing education, and the desire that has always been #1 to me, to be a nurse.

    And let's be honest here, if i were working soley for money and lots of it, nursing would not be where i would turn (which is my reply to the "oh good money" remarks).
    i agree with you. i don't think nurses make "great" money, but for an entry level career its decent.
  5. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from SMK1
    I just don't think you need to educate us on what goes on at the university level. Many people on this board already know because they have been there. I guarantee you it goes on at the university level. Take a look over at SDN and see the primping and preening that goes on between Chiro/ND, PA/NP, PA or NP vs MD/DO, DO vs MD, MD vs DMD, CRNA/AA the list goes on and on and on... and these are masters level and above degree levels. The fact is that it is very misleading to allow people to think that the majority of ADN programs can be completed in 2 years when many are not set up that way at all and require more credits than a normal AA degree would. I was mislead as well, didn't change my plans, but at first I was disappointed to see how long it would really take and how many credits I would be paying for. Comparing a pharmacy tech degree to an ADN is just ludicrous and the person who made the comparison more than likely knew it. The level of the classes are different as well as the length of time. You are simply wrong in thinking that this conversation does not occur in any other profession or at the university level. It does all the time.
    We'll agree to disagree because I still stand by original post.

    For the record,the pharmacy tech, didn't compare her degree to an RN. In fact, she didn't mention what her education was at all, if you read the post.
  6. by   smk1
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    We'll agree to disagree because I still stand by original post.

    For the record,the pharmacy tech, didn't compare her degree to an RN. In fact, she didn't mention what her education was at all, if you read the post.
    agree to disagree if you wish, but it isn't an opinion that this discussion goes on in other professions that require "university level" degrees. It is a simple fact. Have a nice day.
  7. by   RNsRWe
    Quote from BSNtobe2009
    The pharmacy tech's comment was not downgrading her degree, she was simply acknowledging that the RN's salary was 'GOOD' for a 2 year degree, and this is true.

    Some things are just what they are and don't need further interpretation and the pharmacy tech's comments have been picked apart, and it was a comment she just said in passing.
    For what it's worth, I did post in response to this point of view that tone of voice (and body language and facial expressions, etc) is important in determing what anyone meant when they stated something. I said that I understood that you felt I was "reading into" the statement more than was there, that it was a silly point of view because of it, etc.

    However, because I was there, because I saw and heard this person speak, I DID get the clear impression that I WAS being insulted. That whether it was jealousy on her part because my 2-year degree was so much marketable than hers, or who knows why, it wasn't just a passing comment. It was said in the context of earning potential for nurses in the US.

    Did I strap her down and read her the riot act, telling her about everything I vented here? Of course not. Nor would it have made any difference, since AS a person on the sidelines of the medical fields, she already knew better. She was just being snarky, and I resented it. Silly? I think not.

    Yes, she was 100% accurate in her verbatim statement. We do earn good money for just a two year degree. Now, if she'd only left off the snide "just" belittlement, I would have NOT felt like I'd just been slapped.

    I understand why you take up the position you do (that the pharm tech was speaking innocently and accurately, why get bothered?). But please understand that deciding another POV is silly because you don't interpret a flat typed statement to mean the same thing as the person who heard it out loud can be difficult to accept as well.

    Bottom line is the snarky comment was there, the belittlement was there, and I really DON'T feel that enough merit is given to that measly Associates in Nursing degree. I stand by my position that as long as these programs are going to continue to add additional courses, additional requirements, additional credits (that are NOT required of any other 2-year degree anywhere), then something more needs to be done to recognize that.

    A slap to the pharm tech for using the current failings of our academic system to belittle rather than praise. A slap to academia for letting the misconception that an Associates in Business Administration = an Associates in Nursing.
  8. by   RNsRWe
    Quote from angel337
    i can see both sides to this debate, but what i don't understand is why get offended if someone says "wow for a community college degree, you guys make good money" ITS TRUE. i don't think it's an insult, actually it's a compliment.
    Because she didn't say "wow for a community college degree, you guys make good money". She wasn't complimenting, she wasn't impressed. She was being snide and insulting. Tone is everything; I can easily read a sentence on paper and interpret it to mean something different, as you have done. You'll just have to trust that there was a reason why I vented my anger and frustration in the first place. It wasn't because I was being complimented!
  9. by   BSNtobe2009
    Quote from RNsRWe
    For what it's worth, I did post in response to this point of view that tone of voice (and body language and facial expressions, etc) is important in determing what anyone meant when they stated something. I said that I understood that you felt I was "reading into" the statement more than was there, that it was a silly point of view because of it, etc.

    However, because I was there, because I saw and heard this person speak, I DID get the clear impression that I WAS being insulted. That whether it was jealousy on her part because my 2-year degree was so much marketable than hers, or who knows why, it wasn't just a passing comment. It was said in the context of earning potential for nurses in the US.

    Did I strap her down and read her the riot act, telling her about everything I vented here? Of course not. Nor would it have made any difference, since AS a person on the sidelines of the medical fields, she already knew better. She was just being snarky, and I resented it. Silly? I think not.

    Yes, she was 100% accurate in her verbatim statement. We do earn good money for just a two year degree. Now, if she'd only left off the snide "just" belittlement, I would have NOT felt like I'd just been slapped.

    I understand why you take up the position you do (that the pharm tech was speaking innocently and accurately, why get bothered?). But please understand that deciding another POV is silly because you don't interpret a flat typed statement to mean the same thing as the person who heard it out loud can be difficult to accept as well.

    Bottom line is the snarky comment was there, the belittlement was there, and I really DON'T feel that enough merit is given to that measly Associates in Nursing degree. I stand by my position that as long as these programs are going to continue to add additional courses, additional requirements, additional credits (that are NOT required of any other 2-year degree anywhere), then something more needs to be done to recognize that.

    A slap to the pharm tech for using the current failings of our academic system to belittle rather than praise. A slap to academia for letting the misconception that an Associates in Business Administration = an Associates in Nursing.
    Had the tone of her voice, demeanor, etc been mentioned in your original post, I can promise you that I would have AGREED with you that the comment was insulting.

    Unfortunately, you left that part out so it made it appear she made the comment in passing.
  10. by   smk1
    Quote from RNsRWe
    Stopped at local pharmacy to pick up prescription. Asked pharm tech how her daughter was (she's a traveling nurse); she said great, we briefly discussed how she's deciding between staying and moving on, compensations etc. I said that I heard that travelers out her way made some really good money.....and the pharm tech said "well, you guys here make really good money with just a two year degree." JUST. Said in such a way as to make me think she equated my educational experience with a humanities major. Hey: poetry, history, nursing, all the same stuff, right?

    I said you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who finishes an RN program in only 2 years nowadays. She shrugged, said her daughter "blew through" it (ten years ago or so). She didn't want to hear that things have changed a TAD since then.
    Sigh. I think I'll take up basket-weaving. Appears I'm qualified.
    This is the original post. The OP clearly stated that the comment was "said in such a way" to imply the insult. Later the pharm tech tells her that HER daughter "blew through the program" after hearing it was taking the OP longer. Now what in the world is the purpose of telling someone something like that when they clearly are NOT "blowing through the program". Common sense would tell you it was meant to imply the program couldn't be that tough or hard.
  11. by   MN_Steve
    I am a second career nurse. I have a couple of B.S. degrees already (but NOT in nursing, only in Computer Science and Engineering).

    I retrained under the U.S. Trade Readjustment Act (for workers who lost their jobs to foreign competition). They would only pay for two years of education. So I have a 2 year ADN degree.

    I work at a large hospital and know a lot of two and 4 year nurses, both ADN and B.S. Most of the nurses I know are excellent.

    I must say the pay IS excellent for a 2 year degree. A beginning 2 year nurse makes the same starting salary as a new graduate with a 4 year Computer Science degree (if the poor soul with a B.S. in Comp Sci can get a job, pretty tough to do right now.) Nursing darn well should pay as well (or better) since in my days as a beginning Comp Sci grad I never had anyone's life in my hands!

    I am sadly amused by the credential inflation in everything. I know a number of radiographers with 84 credit 2.5 year AAS degrees that are starting to be told 'we would really prefer a person with a B.S. in Radiography!'. So they are getting 'aftermarket' B.S. degrees in Radiography.

    Somewhere down the line I will go get a BS or MA in nursing, but I am in no hurry. (I already have 320+ semester credits in my life). I only learned 10% of what I needed to know in school. The rest I learned on the job (like everyone else).:spin:
  12. by   cookie102
    i responded to this when it was originally posted and can't believe it is still going on with "a battle"...what would you call me, i "only" have a diploma from a 3 years school of nursing!!!! i don't want to get caught in all this cross-fire, people choose different paths in life, perhaps cost of attendance of a 4 yr school was not in the cards for some, there are many reasons, but as i originally stated, it doesn't matter what degree you have----if you don't pass the boards you don't get RN after your name and that degree is no good!!! you can't practice as Nancy Nurse BSN
  13. by   reebok
    When she replied, making good money for "just" a 2-year degree

    You should have given her some reasons why you ADN's make good money for just a 2 year degree.

    No master's degree program whether it be in biology, computer science, or humanities major has to deal with taking care of sick people while putting your ownself at risk for disease... Dealing with bodily fluids, plus making one mistake could kill.

    I still dont think she meant to come off condescending in that way. But i didn't hear her tone of voice.

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