"Diploma Nurse preferable" - page 4

I've seen this is 2 adds in the newspaper, looking for nurses in management positions. "Diploma nurse preferabel". Any one else seen this?... Read More

  1. by   burn out
    my state hasn't had a diploma program for over 15 years, they must be looking for a much older nurse if they are where I live.
  2. by   Rnandsoccermom
    Diploma grad in 1985 from a teaching hospital-based program.

    We went to school for 3 calander years, no summers off. We had to go to the floors the night before clinicals and research our patients thoroughly, write the care plan and be prepared to present to the group the next day at pre-conference. Then you had to go out and BE the RN for your patients-orders and all (they made us talk to and call MD's, the instuctors cosigned). The floor RN basically got the day off for the patients we had. Our instructors also went to the floor RN's and found procedures for us to do, our patient or not. I had done every basic nursing procedure before I graduated (foleys, NG tubes etc...). Critical thinking was taught and expected or you didn't make it. I started in a class of 76 and 38 actually graduated.

    I couldn't have gotten a better education. I am currently a supervisor at a hospital, I never applied for the position. I was told by my DON that they wanted to train me for that position.

    I think it is attractive to employers to find someone that is used to being thrown into any situation and be able to handle it. We were taught that from the start.
  3. by   Tweety
    New grads shouldn't be "thrown into any situation" and expect to function. From what I've seen ADNs and BSNs do o.k. after graduation and make fine nurses. I don't think the job of nursing school is to graduate a functioning nurse ready to hit the floor.
    Last edit by Tweety on Jan 11, '07
  4. by   Kelly_the_Great
    Okay, yeah, the Diploma programs get way more clinical experience than anybody else. Clinicals/"hands on" are a great thing. Personally, I don't think there's any better way to learn than actually "doing."

    But it's my understanding that their clinicals are not just limited to bedside/patient care, they also get a lot of management clinical experience as well. Just like how the Bachelor's program has a clinical management course, they do too.

    The only thing they don't get a lot of is the theory (again, this is just my understanding - I could very well be wrong).

    So, with this in mind, tons of patient care clinical experience (+) management training, why would anybody be surprised that they'd be preferred?
  5. by   wildmountainchild
    Nursing school like a lot of things is self directed. If you aren't getting much hands on in clinicals.....well, go get your hands dirty! Always be asking if you can help, or if you can try something new. Never just sit around and wait! There is almost certainly a bed pan to be changed somewhere. The RN will appreciate your help and remember you for that next NG tube insertion.
  6. by   edcampbe
    snowshooz,

    i hear over and over again on this board that diploma nurses or adns may have more clinical experience than the run-of-the-mill bsn nurse. in response to your comment of feeling bad for some bsns i would like to propose a counter argument. while it may be true that some bsns do not receive the same number of clinical hours than diploma or adn nurses while in nursing school -- what about the invaluable education bsns receive in research, evidence-based practice, and leadership?

    imagine a bsn who has hundreds of hours fewer clinical experiences compared to a diploma or adn nurse after graduation. how long will it take the bsn to reach a comparable level of competence in the workplace? six months, maybe even one year? however, once both nurses are on par with their nursing skills and judgment, who will be the one most likely to better nursing practice by utilizing research which can evoke positive change?
  7. by   SuesquatchRN
    Quote from edcampbe
    however, once both nurses are on par with their nursing skills and judgment, who will be the one most likely to better nursing practice by utilizing research which can evoke positive change?
    don't assume that everyone lacking a bsn lacks higher education and degrees, or the ability to conduct valid research.

    oy.

    the point of the advertisement under discussion is that the employer clearly doesn't want to spend months bringing the new grad up to being able to practice safely. research, schmesearch. the don wants someone who can insert a catheter without also inserting a uti.
  8. by   suzy253
    Quote from edcampbe
    -- what about the invaluable education bsns receive in research, evidence-based practice, and leadership?

    imagine a bsn who has hundreds of hours fewer clinical experiences compared to a diploma or adn nurse after graduation. how long will it take the bsn to reach a comparable level of competence in the workplace? six months, maybe even one year? however, once both nurses are on par with their nursing skills and judgment, who will be the one most likely to better nursing practice by utilizing research which can evoke positive change?
    i'm a recent diploma grad (may 06)--who said we don't get education in research, evidence based practice and leadership...because we do. this was a three year program.....we got everything!
  9. by   marilynmom
    OMG why does every freakin thing have to turn into a BSN vs ADN debate about who gets more clinical hours?!

    As far as I know the state BON sets the clinical hours required for the nursing programs. I know when I go to clinical I always look at the other schools out of curiosity (they post their times in the report rooms) and we are all there the same amount of times per week. I've never once noticed a difference between the ADN or BSN students during clinicals...but I have noticed individual people in certain programs...those with confidence.

    I also don't think that the amount of clinical hours matters as much as what you do with those clinical hours. I've seen some students just sitting on their asses for 12 hours a day not learning much at all. I have not had this experience thankfully, but I know some hospitals plain suck and dislike students being there. What are you doing with your summers---working a full time externship or taking a vacation? Do you work as an aid or a tech? Does your program require nursing volunteer time (mine required 60 hours)? All that adds up and means something.

    My instructor for OB was just telling me about her last group of students who she had for two 12 hour shifts a week--students were not to be found at times, were leaving hours early and not telling anyone, were always taking breaks, surfing the net, scared to do things, not very confident, etc. Pretty crappy bunch overall--yet that school has a good NCLEX rate! haha I'm not even going to mention if this was an ADN or BSN group because why does it matter?
    Last edit by marilynmom on Jan 11, '07
  10. by   marilynmom
    nevermind.
  11. by   marilynmom
    Quote from lauralassie
    I've seen this is 2 adds in the newspaper, looking for nurses in management positions. "Diploma nurse preferabel". Any one else seen this?
    Wow--that is something you don't see very often huh? No, I haven't seen anything like that though, everything I see says BSN preferred when it comes to management positions (or more likely MSN preferred).

    I do find it hard to believe honestly though. Especially in this day and age.
  12. by   Rnandsoccermom
    Quote from Tweety
    New grads shouldn't be "thrown into any situation" and expect to function. From what I've seen ADNs and BSNs do o.k. after graduation and make fine nurses. I don't think the job of nursing school is to graduate a functioning nurse ready to hit the floor.
    I'm not so sure about that.

    I worked on a respiratory/vent unit for my first six years out of school. In my first year, my direct admit was wheeled up to the floor by a transporter at 5pm. The patient was slumped over and cyanotic. I looked at him, screamed for the resident at the desk, and yelled for the unit clerk to call a code. We threw him in the bed and intubated him. My coworkers all helped me, and I learned alot that day. He survived and went home. I had many crazy, stressful, heart-pounding experiences those early years, there was no way around it.

    If that isn't being thrown into situations and being expected to function, I don't know what is. When you work in a big, busy, place you have to expect that, it doesn't matter what your education is. The point is, it is better to prepare new nurses for this, then have them leave the field all together.
  13. by   Tweety
    Quote from Rnandsoccermom
    I'm not so sure about that.

    I worked on a respiratory/vent unit for my first six years out of school. In my first year, my direct admit was wheeled up to the floor by a transporter at 5pm. The patient was slumped over and cyanotic. I looked at him, screamed for the resident at the desk, and yelled for the unit clerk to call a code. We threw him in the bed and intubated him. My coworkers all helped me, and I learned alot that day. He survived and went home. I had many crazy, stressful, heart-pounding experiences those early years, there was no way around it.

    If that isn't being thrown into situations and being expected to function, I don't know what is. When you work in a big, busy, place you have to expect that, it doesn't matter what your education is. The point is, it is better to prepare new nurses for this, then have them leave the field all together.

    You weren't thrown into this situation and expected to function. Your post says "My cowoerkers all helped me......." "We...........", that you called for help. You handled the situation perfectly, as any new grad on their first day or any nurse with 30 years of experience..........you called a code and asked for help.

    Every one of us is going to come across sitautions such as this. Also you illustrate that this experience occurred on the job. This is where we learn to be nurses moreso than in clinical.

    I'm not disrespecting anyone's clinical hours. I'm saying from what I've seen ADN and BSN grads function pretty well during their orientation as new grads. Some better than others, and yes Diploma nurses probably are ready in a few more areas. I kind of felt bad for the student I just precepted because by some freak of nature we didn't get to start one IV together, not one. I pray some arrogant nurse who gets her on the first job says "what do you mean you've never started and IV...what did they teach you in nurses school? People just don't get enough clinical hours these days..........." Rather, I hope someone takes the time to watch her start her IV, and other procedures that she learned in theory but didn't get to do in practice, rather than expect her to come out of school knowing everything and ready to hit the floor without having to be taught, or observed.

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