[pagandeva2000]

Originally Posted by motyandproudofit

I too am in nursing school - RN school, if that matters- and thought I'd check out the LPN thread. Holy Cow!!! You guys had a go with Dgood, almost afraid I'll say the wrong thing. Just wanna say I get where she is coming from with just not knowing and wanting to learn about LPN's. I have always respected all nurses and am glad to know more about them.

Nah, don't be afraid of us, here. What I noticed is that some RN programs really do not educate their students of the role of LPNs, which is highly unfortunate because delegation is a big part of your impending role. Different states (and countries) have different scopes of practice that illustrate what LPNs can and can't do, and there are some countries that do not utilize LPNs at all.

I suspect that what frustrates RNs is that a boatload of responsibilities fall on them, and when they see us being called nurses (which we are), some tend to want to take advantage and treat us like 'little RNs" (meaning dumping some of their responsibilities on us)...but what is really happening is that the RNs are overloaded/overwhelmed (those that care, anyhow) and if they see a nurse that cannot take the load off of some of what they have to do, such as admissions, care plans, initial assessments, (some places do have LPNs do this, but an Registered Nurse MUST countersign), IV push, and whatever else, many are stressed out, and get frustrated. Then, there are the ones that try and intimidate us by lording over our heads that they are the 'real nurses' and insulting our intelligence.

What it is (supposed to be) is that the LPN works under the auspice of the RN, physician, dentist, physician assistant and nurse practitioners...meaning that these people do the initial assessments and our role is supposed to be more task oriented, but we also have to know what is considered safe to administer, perform or teach. We are supposed to care for stable patients with predictable outcomes, and the assignments should reflect as such. However, with the nursing shortage, and the vague scope of practice, many times LPNs are in a quandry, especially if there is no RN support. In fact, if the RN is an idiot, then, we have to make a decision whether or not to do something, need direction, but because we also have a license, we are responsible for what we DO (the task). This usually leads to confrontations, because some RNs will decide to write us up, threaten, or intimidate us; especially when they really don't know what to do. I am not saying that ALL RNs are like that...but because most of us have the right and priviledge to chart as well, we can, in fact document what the directions of the RN was, and this scares those that are not knowledgable, competent or confident in their decisions. The LPN and RN roles are NOT interchangable...therefore, when there is an unstable patient, they are not supposed to get an LPN to do the RNs job of assessment. We do learn the nursing process, pharmacology, diseases processes, nursing interventions and such, but, it is (supposed) to be that after a certain point, the RN can branch off where the LPN falls away, so to speak.

I do think that you should obtain the nurse practice acts of your state to know the roles of the LPNs and CNAs and when you start working, you should obtain a job description of all of the people you work with so that when you delegate, it will be appropriate. In most cases, the RN can be held liable if she assigned an LPN to do something out of her scope of practice and institution policy, and the LPN can be held liable for acting out of her scope. And, if you can initiate a discussion with one of your professors, it would be beneficial to hear their feedback. For those of us that have worked hard to obtain and maintain our licenses and are strong advocates for their practice as LPNs (such as I am), saying that we are not nurses is a devastating insult.

Please feel free to stop in, ask questions and share your insights...we welcome that! But, don't say that we are not nurses...that is not true.

[Ogopogo]

Originally Posted by pagandeva2000

Nah, don't be afraid of us, here. What I noticed is that some RN programs really do not educate their students of the role of LPNs, which is highly unfortunate because delegation is a big part of your impending role. Different states (and countries) have different scopes of practice that illustrate what LPNs can and can't do, and there are some countries that do not utilize LPNs at all.

I suspect that what frustrates RNs is that a boatload of responsibilities fall on them, and when they see us being called nurses (which we are), some tend to want to take advantage and treat us like 'little RNs" (meaning dumping some of their responsibilities on us)...but what is really happening is that the RNs are overloaded/overwhelmed (those that care, anyhow) and if they see a nurse that cannot take the load off of some of what they have to do, such as admissions, care plans, initial assessments, (some places do have LPNs do this, but an Registered Nurse MUST countersign), IV push, and whatever else, many are stressed out, and get frustrated. Then, there are the ones that try and intimidate us by lording over our heads that they are the 'real nurses' and insulting our intelligence.

What it is (supposed to be) is that the LPN works under the auspice of the RN, physician, dentist, physician assistant and nurse practitioners...meaning that these people do the initial assessments and our role is supposed to be more task oriented, but we also have to know what is considered safe to administer, perform or teach. We are supposed to care for stable patients with predictable outcomes, and the assignments should reflect as such. However, with the nursing shortage, and the vague scope of practice, many times LPNs are in a quandry, especially if there is no RN support. In fact, if the RN is an idiot, then, we have to make a decision whether or not to do something, need direction, but because we also have a license, we are responsible for what we DO (the task). This usually leads to confrontations, because some RNs will decide to write us up, threaten, or intimidate us; especially when they really don't know what to do. I am not saying that ALL RNs are like that...but because most of us have the right and priviledge to chart as well, we can, in fact document what the directions of the RN was, and this scares those that are not knowledgable, competent or confident in their decisions. The LPN and RN roles are NOT interchangable...therefore, when there is an unstable patient, they are not supposed to get an LPN to do the RNs job of assessment. We do learn the nursing process, pharmacology, diseases processes, nursing interventions and such, but, it is (supposed) to be that after a certain point, the RN can branch off where the LPN falls away, so to speak.

I do think that you should obtain the nurse practice acts of your state to know the roles of the LPNs and CNAs and when you start working, you should obtain a job description of all of the people you work with so that when you delegate, it will be appropriate. In most cases, the RN can be held liable if she assigned an LPN to do something out of her scope of practice and institution policy, and the LPN can be held liable for acting out of her scope. And, if you can initiate a discussion with one of your professors, it would be beneficial to hear their feedback. For those of us that have worked hard to obtain and maintain our licenses and are strong advocates for their practice as LPNs (such as I am), saying that we are not nurses is a devastating insult.

Please feel free to stop in, ask questions and share your insights...we welcome that! But, don't say that we are not nurses...that is not true.

Awesome post Pagandeva!!! That summarizes LPN/RN interaction perfectly!!!!

[TP_LPN2B]

When I pass the NCLEX-PN I will refer to myself as being a nurse because by law I would have earned that right in it's entirety. I am in a practical nursing program to become a licensed practical nurse therefore I am in nursing school. The only people that it would be confusing to is the people that don't have much knowledge about LPN programs and don't realize that it's real nursing school and it's hard just like an ADN program would be it's just shorter. Either way a practical nursing license is still a nursing license and it gives any LPN the right to be called a nurse just like anyone who has earned a PhD can be called doctor whether it confuses people or not. Anyway, I will become an RN someday after I finish my program. It was my first choice, but I just despise it when people don't know how hard LPN school is and what an accomplishment it is to graduate from the program and to earn a nursing license and they try discredit LPNs for not being RNs. To all the LPN students and LPNs out there be proud of your accomplishments and never be ashamed of what you chose to become. So an LPN, RN, BSN, MSN, or PhD a nurse is a nurse no matter what level it is.

[remched]

I have enjoyed reading all these posts. It is very frustrating when you work hard as LPN's do, and you are asked what you do, you say "I'm a nurse" and they ask, "are you an RN?" I have also heard this referred to as "real nurse". I couldn't disagree more. I had an experience when I first got my license. I know a woman who is an RN. She is a school nurse. She knew I was studying to become a nurse, and I never specified which title because I felt it was none of her business. She's a bit high and mighty anyway. So when I finished, she said to me, "so you're finally an RN". I said "No, I'm an LPN". To which her response was, "Oh, you're only an LPN?" She has been cold to me ever since. But what kills me is, I work in a nursing home, and I have the same responsibilities she would have. I simply can't do IV push heparin. I am IV and medication certified. I also sub for her in her school position. Which I don't think she liked when I applied. Thanks for letting me vent, it's been a long time coming. Whoo hoo!!! to all the LPN's!

[Lil' Pretty Nurse]

Originally Posted by april&em

or do you say you're an LPN when talking to people? Is it common to make a distinction? I know I have friends who say "I'm and RN" when people ask what they do for a living, but it is standard to distinguish between the two, or do most people just say "I'm a nurse"?
When I start LPN school in August, will I say "I'm in nursing school" or does that imply I'm in RN school?
Sorry, probably a dumb question but I just wondered what is normal.

I'm a LPN (working on my RN).... But when someone ask me what kind of nurse I am I just say "One with a License!!"

[elph7420]

Originally Posted by DGood

I know LPN's are licensed practical nurses but saying you are a nurse seems misleading. Right now I'm in nursing school for RN. If I was in LPN school. I would say I am in a practical nurse school
There is also nurse in certified nurse assistant, but they are still nurse assistants not nurses.
I think people should refer to themselves with proper titles.
EXAMPLE >>There is an ARNP here where I work and everyone calls her doctor...how annoying.

I am an LPN and I find it really offensive that you would say that it is misleading to represent myself as nurse. I am a NURSE! I went through school, clinicals and passed NCLEX to get my license from the state saying that I am a nurse! What I dont understand is why you think LPN's are not nurses. So, if a nurse has a BSN does that make that one more of a "nurse" than one with just a ADN? How do you define nurse?

[pagandeva2000]

The community college I attended has an LPN-RN bridge program that requires the LPN student to take many of the same pre-requisites as the RNs so that the bridge over would be a bit easier without taking all of the courses.

I took English Literature with some of the students already accepted into the RN program. I used to see some of them in the lunchroom, and a few took the initiative to sit with me (uninvited, really). They asked me what my major was, and I said 'nursing' (because it was), and many of them commented on how intelligent I was, they enjoyed the thought provoking questions I used to ask, etc... One of them asked immediately if I had a high GPA and I stated that I don't discuss grades with people. I got a higher grade than they did in the class (not that it made a difference).

Anyhow, the following year, I started the LPN program, and one of those same students came to me and asked "I thought that you said that you were a nursing major" and I said "Yes, I am, and I AM in a NURSING program. ALso, I never told you that it was the RN program...you assumed". Funny enough...she failed that semester. Sometimes, people bite off more than they can chew before they try and find out if they can handle the meal. I'm a nurse, now...don't know what she is today.

[Fiona59]

What people forget is anyone can study nursing, write the school exams, graduate with a certificate, degree, or diploma.

The title NURSE isn't valid until the national exam is written for anyone.

[Jeepgirl48]

Licensed Practical NURSE...........need I say more

[Carebear77]

I am in Nursing School.......to become a nurse. I will gladly tell anyone that I will be a LPN if they ask.
Funny thing about my school, all of our books are the same used for the RN program. So I will be all set when I return to become a RN.
A nurse is a nurse to me regardless of being a LPN or RN.