[barbara44]

As a scientiswt, she should be aware of the fact that heavy metals are almost impossible to remove from human tissue. Also, she does not address the fact that thrimerosal has been removed from all vaccines except for some flu vaccines. And she does not address the issue that since it's removal, the rate of autism has not descreased. Nor has she or any of those who support her, addressed the fact that if thrimerosal is the major cause of autism, why have not all children exhibited some signs of autism?

when autistic children get a hair analysis done, they test high for many metals, but usually low in mercury. that's because their body is having trouble detoxing the mercury. however, when they do chelation therapy (which helps remove the metals) their hair samples test high for mercury. that's because the mercury is now coming out.

mercury still remains in some flu, tetanus, DT and meningococcal vaccines: http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm

this article shows that new cases of autism are leveling off in california:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/s...l=la-news-state

if you scroll down a bit till you get to "Why not everyone?"
http://www.autismanswer.com/article...thimerosal.html
miss yasko does explain why many children don't get autism.

i do believe that lots of children have been affected by the mercury. 1 in 6 american children is in special ed today w/disorders like autism, aspergers, add, adhd and learning disabilities.

[rpggyr]

Its both. The MMR supposedly never contained thimerisol, however at one of the Government Reform Commitee hearings that Dan Burton held I remember hearing one of the scientists state he found trace amounts of thimerisol in the MMR. It was never listed as having thimerisol. When one of the commitee members asked him how this could be he stated he did not know and maybe he should asked the pharmaceutical company that made it why it was in there. His opinion was that they may be using thimerisol in the processing of the vaccine to kill bateria. This is interesting since they are still using it in the processing phase of the supposedly thimerisol free infant vaccines. I have come to the conclusion that the pharmaceuticals can do any dam thing they want and the FDA will do nothing. If this is the case and I believe it is, we have more than just thimerisol in vaccines to worry about. A perfect example of this is the Vioxx fiasco. The FDA tried to muzzle their own scientists. Most people think the FDA is funded by tax dollars. It is not anymore. Most money that is funding the FDA is coming from the pharmaceuticals. There in lies the problem and its a big one.

Peggy

Originally Posted by lady_jezebel

Isn't the controversy now autism & the MMR vaccine?

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by grannynurseFNP

While the article is interesting, I take issue with the individual's method of research and scientific data. She has done no double blind studies nor is her data supported by available scientific data. Mecury is a heavy metal. She contends that it is difficult to remove from the human body. There in lies a fault in her premise. As a scientiswt, she should be aware of the fact that heavy metals are almost impossible to remove from human tissue. Also, she does not address the fact that thrimerosal has been removed from all vaccines except for some flu vaccines. And she does not address the issue that since it's removal, the rate of autism has not descreased. Nor has she or any of those who support her, addressed the fact that if thrimerosal is the major cause of autism, why have not all children exhibited some signs of autism?

Autism is a tragi disease. We have improved our diagnoses of it. We are working to improve our treatment. And we are being distracted by pursuing false claims of its cause.

Grannynurse

Perhaps the reason that she doesn't address the fact that not all children exhibit some signs of autism is because I have yet to hear any credible researcher, whether they work for the IOM or DAN, claim that genetic vulnerability may not play some role in which children are affected by any potential autism trigger. Why don't all smokers develop lung cancer? Why don't all former coal miners develop black lung disease? And by the way, autism is a developmental disorder, not a disease.

[grannynurse FNP student]

Originally Posted by rpggyr

grannynurse,
Nothing could be further from the truth. I recently took my granddaughter in for her yearly physical for camp. The pediatrican noticed she had not received her last MMR. DPT, or polio. He suggested I give her a tetnus booster. I have to tell you that I no intentions of giving my granddaughter another vaccine. She ran a very high fever after her fourth DPT, had convulsions and regressed losing all speech. She did not speak again until almost five years old. When I questioned the Ped about the thimerisol he said it was out. To make a point I asked to see the vial. Low and behold the expiration date was 2005 and conatined the full 25mcg of thimerisol. Also the thimerisol free infant vaccines still contain trace amount of thimerisol as they use thimerisol in the processing. Here is another tidbit. At the last IOM meeting in Feb 2004 Dr. Mark Geier (geneticist) began testing the new infant vaccines and was finding the full amounts of thimerisol. Here is the kicker. It was not listed in the packaged inserts nor in the PDR. This is illegal. Our government agenices are not telling the truth about the timerisol. They refuse to give grants to research this issue. According to Dr. Mark Geier (who stated before the IOM) the reason they will not do this is becasue they already know. They plan on phasing out the mercury gradually Even though they are stating its already out becasue they know if they take it out all at once and the numbers of Dx autism drop this will be further proof it was the thimerisol. This would put the pharmacueticals in a bad place defending themselves against the thousands of filed lawsuits that are pending. The FDA,and the CDC is more interested in protecting the pharmaceuticals than they are the public.

Peggy

What I find interesting, there is no credieble scientific evidence to support the theory that autism is caused by timerisol. None, zero. But there are many claims that it is but no scientific studies that even remotely corelate a relationship between the two. If timerisol causes autism, why were there no many more cases during the many years of its presence in our vaccine supply. Perhaps the answer to that is improved diagnoses and classification. There is a great deal of supposition but very little reliable scientifc data to support the claim.

I am sorry your grandaughter has suffered. It is your right to refuse to have her vaccinate. I hope that your trust in very weak data does not result in her suffering more permanent diabilities. Until there is reliable scientifc evidence to support a connect, the scientific community, of which I am a member, will continue to question on unreliable evidence put out by the nay savers and conspiracy theorists.

Grannynurse

[mercyteapot]

The whole point of the Kennedy article that initiated this thread was that studies are being covered up and/or whitewashed by the government. Several prominent pediatricians and researchers are quoted in that article, expressing their concern about the mercury levels to which children were exposed. To disagree with the premise is one thing, but fortunately, the autism research community has taken on this cause with a passion and we'll be hearing more, not less, about further study, whatever the government wants us to believe.

[rpggyr]

There is plenty of scientific evidence that mercury in any form is a potent nerotoxin. I personally don't believe autism exists. I think what we need to start calling it is mercury poisoning. I find it amazing that the scientific community you have so much respect in would like us to believe that mercury in fish is dangerous. Don't eat it, but we can inject it into tiny one day old infants with no blood brain barrier. There is clincial evidence that thimerisol destroys neurons. Its on film. It kills everything. In fact it kills brain cells better than it does bacteria. It depends on what scientific body you want to listen to. The ones that are independent and want the truth, or the ones that are responsible for what has happened and want to cover it up. If the autism spike is the result of better dx's and not a real increase where are all the twenty year old autistics. They would be pretty hard to miss don't you think? It is obvious to me from your responses where you are getting all your information from. Since you have so much respect for science why not go to the IOM's website and listen to the hearings. Listen to the scientisits who do believe its the thimerisol, and how they have come to these conclusions. They are the ones in the labs doing the clinical studies while the FDA and CDC are spending money on flawed epidemiology studies. My granddaughter is doing fantastic thanks to alerternative medicine. The only thing allopathic medicine had to offer was more brain damaging psych drugs, and of course more toxic vaccines. I'm done with main stream medicine. I'll put my faith in what god gave all of us. Our immune system. Most of us still have one, its not in a bottle, and best of all its free.

Originally Posted by grannynurseFNP

What I find interesting, there is no credieble scientific evidence to support the theory that autism is caused by timerisol. None, zero. But there are many claims that it is but no scientific studies that even remotely corelate a relationship between the two. If timerisol causes autism, why were there no many more cases during the many years of its presence in our vaccine supply. Perhaps the answer to that is improved diagnoses and classification. There is a great deal of supposition but very little reliable scientifc data to support the claim.

I am sorry your grandaughter has suffered. It is your right to refuse to have her vaccinate. I hope that your trust in very weak data does not result in her suffering more permanent diabilities. Until there is reliable scientifc evidence to support a connect, the scientific community, of which I am a member, will continue to question on unreliable evidence put out by the nay savers and conspiracy theorists.

Grannynurse

[NRSKarenRN]

From Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

Vaccine Education Center

Vaccines have literally transformed the landscape of medicine over the course of the 20th century.

Before vaccines, parents in the United States could expect that every year:

• Polio would paralyze 10,000 children.
• Rubella (German measles) would cause birth defects and mental retardation in as many as 20,000 newborns.
• Measles would infect about 4 million children, killing 3,000.
• Diphtheria would be one of the most common causes of death in school-aged children.
• A bacterium called Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) would cause meningitis in 15,000 children, leaving many with permanent brain damage.
• Pertussis (whooping cough) would kill thousands of infants.

Vaccines have reduced and, in some cases, eliminated many diseases that killed or severely disabled people just a few generations before. For most Americans today, vaccines are a routine part of healthcare.

The Vaccine Education Center
To provide complete, up-to-date and reliable information about vaccines to parents and healthcare professionals, The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia created the Vaccine Education Center.

The Vaccine Education Center, through its Web site, videos, informational tear sheets and speakers programs, provides information on every vaccine.

I clearly remember classmates and friends family members dying in the 1950's. This site has some great info and links.

Thimerosal | Vaccine Education Center
… Thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative, has been the … foods that contain intentionally introduced mercury compounds and …

[mercyteapot]

Mercury research at major universities: I'm going to post this working under the assumption that we can all agree the University of Washington, UC Davis, Johns Hopkins and Columbia are all "credible sources" of information. I hardly think they're buying into some conspiracy theory.

University Of Washington / National Institutes Of Environmental Health
Sciences - Published In Environmental Health Perspectives
In primates, ethylmercury from vaccines (in the form of thimerosal),
once it enters the brain, converts to inorganic mercury at two to three
times the rate of methylmercury, which is found in fish. Inorganic mercury
lacks a natural transport system out of the brain, where it remains for long
periods of time, perhaps indefinitely. A previous study by the same team
found that inorganic mercury was the main cause of serious changes in brain
tissue, including a major expansion of microglial cells (white matter),
which is consistent with the finding of "big brains" in autistic children.

University Of California - M.I.N.D. Institute - Presented At The 2005
Interational Meeting For Autism Research
Children with autism have a markedly different immune profile from
normal kids. They are found to have increased autoimmunity, extremely high
levels of certain immune cells and cytokines, and an imbalance of immune
cells to antibodies (TH1 vs. TH2 response). ALL of these abnormal conditions
appear in the literature on mercury toxicity.

Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School Of Public Health - Published In The Journal
Pediatrics
The rate of increase in new cases of autism among children born every
year in the United States was relatively stable until 1987, when the rate
suddenly began to spike, and then continued to rise among children born in
each subsequent birth cohort. A second spike in the rate of increase was
noted in 1992, a few years after which, the rate began to level off. (It is
interesting to note that, between 1987 and 1992, with the introduction of
new thimerosal containing vaccines, total mercury exposure from infant
immunization went from 75 to nearly 240 micrograms). Meanwhile, the reported
incidence of mental retardation and other childhood disorders remained
constant, meaning that "diagnostic substitution" was not an explanation for
the rise in autism cases.
Columbia University - Published In Molecular Psychology
Mice with a genetic predisposition to autoimmunity showed horrific
reactions to thimerosal containing vaccines, compared to mice without the
autoimmunity. Sensitive mice showed repetitive and self-injurious behavior,
including grooming themselves or their cage mates incessantly, sometimes to
the point of death. They also were found to have increased brain size
compared to the typical (control) mice exposed to the same vaccine schedule.

Columbia University - Published In Molecular Psychology
Mice with a genetic predisposition to autoimmunity showed horrific
reactions to thimerosal containing vaccines, compared to mice without the
autoimmunity. Sensitive mice showed repetitive and self-injurious behavior,
including grooming themselves or their cage mates incessantly, sometimes to
the point of death. They also were found to have increased brain size
compared to the typical (control) mice exposed to the same vaccine schedule.


http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...h/message/2586

[rpggyr]

Thank you Mercyteapot. Like I said it depends on what scientific data you want to believe. The flawed epidemiology studies or the ones that are the real studies being done in the labs.

Peggy

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

Mercury research at major universities: I'm going to post this working under the assumption that we can all agree the University of Washington, UC Davis, Johns Hopkins and Columbia are all "credible sources" of information. I hardly think they're buying into some conspiracy theory.

University Of Washington / National Institutes Of Environmental Health
Sciences - Published In Environmental Health Perspectives
In primates, ethylmercury from vaccines (in the form of thimerosal),
once it enters the brain, converts to inorganic mercury at two to three
times the rate of methylmercury, which is found in fish. Inorganic mercury
lacks a natural transport system out of the brain, where it remains for long
periods of time, perhaps indefinitely. A previous study by the same team
found that inorganic mercury was the main cause of serious changes in brain
tissue, including a major expansion of microglial cells (white matter),
which is consistent with the finding of "big brains" in autistic children.

University Of California - M.I.N.D. Institute - Presented At The 2005
Interational Meeting For Autism Research
Children with autism have a markedly different immune profile from
normal kids. They are found to have increased autoimmunity, extremely high
levels of certain immune cells and cytokines, and an imbalance of immune
cells to antibodies (TH1 vs. TH2 response). ALL of these abnormal conditions
appear in the literature on mercury toxicity.

Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School Of Public Health - Published In The Journal
Pediatrics
The rate of increase in new cases of autism among children born every
year in the United States was relatively stable until 1987, when the rate
suddenly began to spike, and then continued to rise among children born in
each subsequent birth cohort. A second spike in the rate of increase was
noted in 1992, a few years after which, the rate began to level off. (It is
interesting to note that, between 1987 and 1992, with the introduction of
new thimerosal containing vaccines, total mercury exposure from infant
immunization went from 75 to nearly 240 micrograms). Meanwhile, the reported
incidence of mental retardation and other childhood disorders remained
constant, meaning that "diagnostic substitution" was not an explanation for
the rise in autism cases.
Columbia University - Published In Molecular Psychology
Mice with a genetic predisposition to autoimmunity showed horrific
reactions to thimerosal containing vaccines, compared to mice without the
autoimmunity. Sensitive mice showed repetitive and self-injurious behavior,
including grooming themselves or their cage mates incessantly, sometimes to
the point of death. They also were found to have increased brain size
compared to the typical (control) mice exposed to the same vaccine schedule.

Columbia University - Published In Molecular Psychology
Mice with a genetic predisposition to autoimmunity showed horrific
reactions to thimerosal containing vaccines, compared to mice without the
autoimmunity. Sensitive mice showed repetitive and self-injurious behavior,
including grooming themselves or their cage mates incessantly, sometimes to
the point of death. They also were found to have increased brain size
compared to the typical (control) mice exposed to the same vaccine schedule.


http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...h/message/2586

[chicagrl72]

Originally Posted by rpggyr

Thank you Mercyteapot. Like I said it depends on what scientific data you want to believe. The flawed epidemiology studies or the ones that are the real studies being done in the labs.

Peggy

i am struggling with this issue .. i have a 2 1/2 yr old with only two vaccinations. I told our dr that i would like to wait ..he is cool with that ..it is under public health care ...we see a dr at a public health care facility

meanwhile i did have insurance for a bit and that dr told me as well "it is cool to wait ...most vaccination laws are in effect for purposes of getting to people who are low income and won't vaccinate again..get em while you have em " etc ...so we have waited ...now i have to get the certain ones for school etc...i am still stalling ..not sure what to do

on the other hand i have to have a million vax on my record even to volunteer
i have most but right now i have no health care ...so i am not sure how to obtain the rest ..to get me up to date ...