[Hellllllo Nurse]

Maybe, instead of "massage therapist" your friend could bill herself as "Registered nurse, massuese".

Maybe that would be legal?

[mafiacarx]

nurses have given massages FOREVER in the hospital. WHen I was in school giving my patient a massage was expected. It would be great to learn different techniques, but as far as needing another license to give a backrub.............thats nuts.

[nurseyperson]

I totally agree is it nuts for a nurse to obtain another license to do what we do everyday ( or should be doing, if we aren't short starffed, etc) which, as you said, is a BACKRUB. Thank good ness there are preofessional massage therapists that actually do the massages. As a Massage Therapist who specializes in Medical Massage, Neuromuscular/ Trigger Point therapy, I know what the differences are between a massage and a backrub. Do you?

Do you know that in up to 90% of the cases (Except where there is a trauma) neck pain is caused from muscle strain and the CAUSE of that strain is in the FRONT of the body (Neck, chest poor posture, etc.) NOT WHERE IT HURTS. So if you only give a BACKRUB where it hurts, (the back of the neck) you can actually aggravate the condition!!!!!!! Make sure you know the facts.

Did you know that trigger points can cause pain in remote areas of the body? And if you spend your time rubbing the painful areas, you might very well be wasting your time, because the CAUSE is somewhere else? Oh, it might feel good for a little while, but it will not REALLY help your patient. Sort of like giving Tylenol for a fever from an infection but no antibiotics. Covering the symptoms but not getting to the root of the problem.

Something for you to think about. Of course you can do give a backrub as a nurse!!!!!!!! PLEASE DO!!!

[PsychNurseDee]

Nurseyperson
I am in MT school now, and have been a RN for 17 years. I have certainly learned that there is ALOT I didn't know about the benefits of massage..and it is certainly more involved than a "backrub" as we were taught in nursing school. NMT has been an amazing eye opener for me!! I love what I am learning. I am interested in your comment about "medical massage". Is that a seperate certification/classification, and if so what are the requirements for it? I am in Louisiana, and per a request for a decision on my ability to perform massage as a nurse, they say that it is covered, but can't be called "massage therapy".. I wonder if medical massage is what they are referring to. I am quite leary of how/what to advertise as to what I can legally do and how to charge. Any other info you can provide me is great.
Thanks
Dedee

[nurseyperson]

On whether you can perform "massage therapy" as a nurse---
When I spoke with the Kansas State Board of Nursing, they stated that yes, nurses can perform massage because,
IN KANSAS, massage is not regulated by any other board.
Since it is not regulated, anyone can do it. So that means a nurse can do it. (Too bad... we are behind in Kansas, but hopefully catching up with the rest of the US in some kind of regulation)
In Louisiana, you need a license with 500 hours of schooling and passing both a writen and oral exam, and the NCETMB is used, National Certification Exam for Therapeutic Massage and bodywork.
I went thru a lot with one hospital trying to figure it all out...
nurse, MT, working thru them, how to charge, etc. We never got it figured out, because of the amount of work I would have to do on it...policy, procedure, getting the whole program set up myself. A smaller hospital where I now work was much more progressive and easy to work with, and I do treatments thru the clinic as an employee of the doctor.
And as far as what Medical Massage actually is, there is a
web site, http://americanmedicalmassage.com
and an article on that site titled
Medical Massage Therapy: The Search for Definition at
http://americanmedicalmassage.com/ne...id=39&zoneid=4

It is actually more appropriate to say I am a Neuromuscular Therapist, but as a nurse I encorporated my medical knowledge all the time. so all of the titles, etc are all in a grey area, unfortuantely!!!!!

[yves]

Originally Posted by VickyRN

I posted this in the General Nursing section; decided to post here also. Here goes:

I have a dear nurse friend who is totally burned out with nursing. She is older, with health problems, and has been through three or four disastrous hospital "reorganizations" during her career. These reorganizations were brutal and disastrous to the nursing staff in each instance. Now my friend can hardly stand the thought of nursing in a hospital anymore. Healing is still her passion, and she has taken courses on massage therapy and practices informally in her home. Only trouble with this, the State of North Carolina now has a Board of Licensed Massage Therapists which has instigated stiff practice and licensing requirements for massage therapists since 1998. (Just another instance of us nurses losing parts of our profession... we have lost physical therapy to our domain, as well as health education, nutrition and diet therapy, social work, what will be next????) Anyway, she wants to become a licensed massage therapist in North Carolina. Does anyone know if one can "place out" by taking an examination for massage therapy and thus achieve licensure without having to go through all the arduous classes, etc (it is a two-year program--yikes!!!!). Any thoughts or info would be most appreciated

Look at my reply about massage therapy for lymph edema I also have a great home base business for nurses that i am doing quite well at. please email me at yvonnethetraveler@yahoo.com
yvonne

[zenman]

In Texas, health professionals (RN, MD, PT etc.) who had the training in alternative/complementary modalities could use that training under their professional license. We also went so far as to challenge the dept of health to show that Zen Shiatsu, and some other modalities, were not massage and the dept of health dropped us from their control. We just have to belong to our national organization which has strict training guidelines. I even used the nursing process in treating my clients. Now here in Hawaii, I had to waste my time and money taking the LMT exam.

[yves]

I am a nurse in the midst of many good changes. Ive been looking into lymphedema massage. The schooling is two weeks and and is intensive you have to test at the end. Rns OTs PTs and MTs are allowed to take the course. Ive been told by some the Rns have a harder time at getting the technique. Today I am going to docs in the area and ask if there is a need in this area. As a nurse I will need a Doctor to order and bill I think. But I have been told that I will be able to do this from home. I am looking into having supplies they can buy or rent such as the compression pumps dressings hoses. I will have exercise classes while waiting to get their manual massage. Also many will lack in poor nutrition and i will carry a line of supplements and have quality snacks . I am looking at placing a steam room in my bathroom. My husband says it is very easy to do. There is some that do hot and cold hydrotherapy to help increase the circulation. My mind keeps racing at all of the things I could offer. Besides those that have had cancer and their lymph glands removed or destroyed with radiation, there are those that have PAD, lipedema, poor nutrition low albumin where there legs swell. I forsee gastric bypass pts that dont take protein shakes will have this problem.
The schooling I am looking into is in Florida. Anyone have any ideas about marketing to docs that is the part that I am most nervous. Go figure an ICU nurse nervous around Docs.
yvonne

[nurseyperson]

As a nurse I will need a Doctor to order and bill I think. But I have been told that I will be able to do this from home. I am looking into having supplies they can buy or rent such as the compression pumps dressings hoses. I will have exercise classes while waiting to get their manual massage. Also many will lack in poor nutrition and i will carry a line of supplements and have quality snacks . I am looking at placing a steam room in my bathroom. My husband says it is very easy to do. There is some that do hot and cold hydrotherapy to help increase the circulation.
**********************************************

yves.....
You have some good ideas, and will understand more once you get into the classes. A few things you need to know...

You need to make sure the school you are looking into teaches Manual Lymph Drainage (MLD) and Complete Decongestive Therapy. And make sure the school meets the requirements for Lymphatic Association of North America certification. (LANA) The father of this kind of therapy is Dr. Vodder, and his techniques are the most taught.

Look under "manual lymph drainage" in google to see info on many schools, programs, etc.

ALSO.....about working out of your house...YOU PROBABLY CAN'T!!!!
Info I have from Medicare in the state of Kansas (Run by Blue Cross and Blue Shield) states that you must have a provider number to get reimbursed for insurance. That would be the Doctor, clinic, etc. And they also stated that you must work for the provider ( as evidenced by with holding of social security, etc) and MAY NOT BE CONTRACT LABOR, AND HAVE TO WORK AT THE PROVIDERS LOCATION. So I could not even work out of my office one block away from the clinic!!! And the clinic/doctor won't just "bill" for you. It is costly and time consuming. You will have to pay in some way. I pay 20% of my income for my room in the clinic and for the billing department to do my billing.

AND...........the cost of many of the supplies that you would like to provide may not be covered by insurance, such as the compression dressings, sleeves, etc. LOOK INTO ALL OF THIS BEFORE YOU GET STARTED!!

It is a good idea. There is a need, but I don't think you can do it on your own. Look into your states medicare and insurance requirements. I'll help you all I can with what I know.

Good luck!!!!

[datsgrace2u]

Licensing for Massage Therapy is different in every state. CT requires passing the national certification exam for licensure where as in MA it is licensed by town with EVERY TOWN having its own requirements. Be sure you check with your state and local agencies to know your own laws because you dont want to lose everything you work for by not being legal. And be sure that if you practice under your nursing license that your professional liability insurence will cover you. The AMTA (American Massage Therapy Association) may be able to provide info or links to info. As a graduate from a medical massage program and a nurse with 20 years experience I can honestly say that there is MUCH to massage that I never learned in nursing school and I had one heck of an old school education! My only regret is that it took me so long to do it. Nursing is rewarding but we often dont do pleasant things to our patients. With massage it is all good.