[stanleyvinet]

Originally Posted by shadchan

Hi all, I'm so sorry if this is in the wrong place - please lead me to the right one if that's the case.

I'm a CNA/CHHA in a big retirement facility with independent, assisted, rehab, and LTC. For the past few months I've been working as a caregiver on their assisted living side because I changed to pt status to return to school.

All the other caregivers (no license or certification) pre-pour the patient meds into envelopes that later shifts dispense to patients. I have always felt uncomfortable with this because I know as a CNA I sure as heck am not allowed to go anywhere near the meds.

They want me to go to a 1 hour training session tomorrow to become a "med tech aide" and learn to pour the meds myself. They have let me slide on it but they say that the training must be done by the end of the year, so here I am in this predicament.

I feel very uncomfortable with this and feel like something is fishy. I've never even heard of a "med tech aide" and Google brings up ZERO search results on it.

Please advise me on whether caregivers are allowed to do this, and if so, would it affect or endanger my CNA certification?

Thank you all very much in advance.

Actually, a CMA is another certification that CNA's can achieve. You have to go to another certification course.
Here in texas it's a State Regulate program , just like the CNA Program. Here's a link to check it out for your self.

http://www.austincc.edu/ce/files/sch...all_07_hpi.pdf

MEDICATION AIDE PERMIT
** May Qualify for Financial Aid-Contact 512.223.7547 **

Advanced instruction in preparation and administration of
designated medications by Certified Nurse Aides working under
the guidance of a licensed nurse. Must be employed on the first
day of class. Employment must be in a Medicare Skilled
Nursing/Medicaid Facility, licensed MHMR facility, or be a
Certified Nurse Aide or have a minimum of 90 days employment
providing patient care in a licensed assisted living facility. Must
have high school or GED equivalent. Books at Rio Grande
Bookstore. ($25 state testing fee payable to Texas Department
of Aging & Disabilities Service.)

[DutchgirlRN]

Originally Posted by stanleyvinet

Actually, a CMA is another certification that CNA's can achieve. You have to go to another certification course.
Here in texas it's a State Regulate program , just like the CNA Program. Here's a link to check it out for your self.

There is alot more to giving meds than getting the right med, right dose to the right patient. Meds should only be given by a nurse with a license no matter what the state law allows.

[stanleyvinet]

Originally Posted by DutchgirlRN

There is alot more to giving meds than getting the right med, right dose to the right patient. Meds should only be given by a nurse with a license no matter what the state law allows.

Well mam you can funnel that aurgument to that Nurses should not be allowed to give meds since they don't prescribe them, but only MD's...

In anycase, the thread question was about the legitamacy of the CMA Certification, not opinions on who should/not give meds....
V/r

I did err also: the CNA & CMA Certifcations are over all run by the Federal DHHS, not the States. I'm sure there are plenty of good Nurses and MD's that work with the programs to over see it's legitamacy and accuracy.

[Jelli_Belli]

Actually it is perfectly legal for "med techs" to give ROUTINE meds to residents in assisted living or group home settings. I work as a community outreach psychiatric nurse and I supervise the residential techs that supervise our residents taking their meds.

The logic behind it is this: The group home is the resident's HOME and at home they wouldn't have a licensed nurse come to their house everyday and dispense their meds to them. The techs are not dispensing the medication, they are simply reminded the residents that they have pills to take and assuring they take only the pills that are prescribed. When ever a resident has a new pill, I come to the house and give the first dose, monitor for reaction, educate both the techs and the resident about what to watch for and when to call me. After that the med is considered routine. I assume this is kind of the same logic used in assisted living.

I never understand why nurses get so upset over this. It is the same as sending a pediatric patient home with a prescription for Mom to fill and give to the child. Nobody gets upset that Mom is not a licensed nurse. Nobody gets riled up over patient's taking their own meds at home without supervision by someone licensed.

With that said, though, I am absolutely against med techs in hospital or skilled nursing home settings. Med techs shouldn't really be used outside of a residential setting in my opinion.

[shadchan]

Durr, I blended two sentences into one, Dutch. I MEANT to say that the PTA program was suggested to me by several people, and as far as the PT program, I knew it required a master's, yadda yadda...gotcha! Thanks for your help.

I went to the session and raised my concerns with the lady who seemed totally baffled by them, but she said she would talk to her higher up and see if we can't make ends meet on this, since I flat out told her I do not feel comfortable prepouring. We not only do routine meds, we also handle and dispense narcotics as needed, and I was NEVER comfortable with that anyway.

Also signed up with one home care agency nearby today and plan to do another one next week. :-) So we will see if any good will come of this.


Jelli, I get freaked out about this not only because this goes against what I was taught as a CNA, but it is also a liability issue. I don't want my butt in the fire if I can help it. I see where your comparison makes sense, but I unfortunately am not Mom, I am the responsible party on my shift - AKA, the one to point the finger at if something doesn't go right or somebody has an adverse reaction to a medication mispoured by the last shift. I know that nobody is going to stick up for ME but ME. That is why I am making a big deal out of it.

[DutchgirlRN]

Originally Posted by shadchan

I know that nobody is going to stick up for ME but ME. That is why I am making a big deal out of it.

You're not making a big deal out of it you're doing what is right and you're right to know it's your neck in the noose when there's trouble. Administration will not stand behind you except to help push you out the door. Best of Luck.

[Jelli_Belli]

I am the responsible party on my shift - AKA, the one to point the finger at if something doesn't go right or somebody has an adverse reaction to a medication mispoured by the last shift. I know that nobody is going to stick up for ME but ME. That is why I am making a big deal out of it.

You are absolutely right about this one. I NEVER allow my techs to pre-pour meds and advise them against giving the residents anything that they did not pop out of the blister packs themselves. No one should be giving anything out that they didn't prepare themselves- nurse or tech.

I think it is great that you are so concerned about the care and safety of the residents there.

Best wishes!

[shadchan]

It is routine for the other caregivers to prepour days ahead of time. :S

I thank you all for every bit of advice and encouragement. I have taken it to heart and I will also DEFINITELY be looking more at the PTA program Dutch. I'd rather put myself through PT school making $35-40k a year doing something I'd be delighted to do every day (and in fact, have already had practice with at times) than eke my way through 8 more years of school making $10.50 an hour. LOL

PS: I just today found the CNA forums...they've moved since the last time I visited here! LOL Sorry I didn't put this thread there!

[lindarn]

Originally Posted by Jelli_Belli

Actually it is perfectly legal for "med techs" to give ROUTINE meds to residents in assisted living or group home settings. I work as a community outreach psychiatric nurse and I supervise the residential techs that supervise our residents taking their meds.

The logic behind it is this: The group home is the resident's HOME and at home they wouldn't have a licensed nurse come to their house everyday and dispense their meds to them. The techs are not dispensing the medication, they are simply reminded the residents that they have pills to take and assuring they take only the pills that are prescribed. When ever a resident has a new pill, I come to the house and give the first dose, monitor for reaction, educate both the techs and the resident about what to watch for and when to call me. After that the med is considered routine. I assume this is kind of the same logic used in assisted living.

I never understand why nurses get so upset over this. It is the same as sending a pediatric patient home with a prescription for Mom to fill and give to the child. Nobody gets upset that Mom is not a licensed nurse. Nobody gets riled up over patient's taking their own meds at home without supervision by someone licensed.

With that said, though, I am absolutely against med techs in hospital or skilled nursing home settings. Med techs shouldn't really be used outside of a residential setting in my opinion.

When these individuals are at home and their spouse, or other relative are helping them to take there meds, they only have that one person to help/give meds to, not an entire wing of them. If RNs and LPNs can get distracted and make medication errors, it only stands to reason that CMA's, who have no idea what they are doing, can and will make signigicantly more mistakes than an RN or LPN. One only has to read this listserve and the threads concerning Nurses who have had to supervise these Med techs, to realize that it is still bad policy to allow this. If nurses had stood their ground, refused to "supervise" these Med Techs, pressured their elected officials who allowed this, it could and would have been stopped in its tracks. I would never put myself in a situation that I would have to "supervise" incompetant Med Techs to perform what still is a professional responsibility. I don't care if they THINK they know what they are doing. There is more to giving or helping someone take meds than just handing them a pill. Period.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

[linzz]

I am from Canada and this issue is also occuring here. There are some assisted living facilities that use med techs, but not a lot. They are allowed to give out routine meds only. It is a concern because here there is a very acute shortage of nursing homes as the government is not willing to pay as even our privately run homes receive some government funding, thus leaving our assisted living homes populated with residents who are waiting for long term care spots. These residents are often coming in with many issues that really do require care from a licenced nurse.