[redwinggirlie]

Originally Posted by fergus51

I think we are horribly arrogant to think that if we (the medical professionals) can not find a reason for someone's pain than it doesn't exist. Just think of all the different conditions that didn't even exist 20 years ago. Diseases like chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia are still mostly mysteries.

I realize there are genuine drug seekers out there, but the term is used much too often. I knew a nurse who was convinced that anyone who asked for something for post-op pain was a drug seeker. Wait until she has her hip fractured and replaced! I am much more concerned for the people whose pain is not adequately treated because of our moral judgements.

Pain has long been my pet peeve. I have seen people in pain asking for help and being ignored by uncaring jaded nurses who should've retired years ago. My friend's mother was in the hospital for pain control using a PCA (because of terminal lung cancer) and her IV went interstitial. Instead of changing it the nurse left it for the day shift to do. My friend's mother went for over 2 hours without any pain control. I just don't understand how people (nurses) can be so cold and uncaring. Wait until they have pain without a "medical reason".

ps
pain is a medical reason to be hospitalized.

You couldn't have put it better.
I work in an area where everyone on the floor is in much pain. We know that, and everyone is medicated safely for their pain. When floats work the floor, that is the only time I hear the "pain seeker" phrase.
I always remember, no matter what reason they are there, it is their pain, not mine.

[krisssy]

How can a nurse ignore a physician's order for pain control???????????

Many many people are put on pain meds for post surgical or other types of pain, and they get addicted to it. What are we as nurses to do, call them "drug seekers", judge them morally, ignore them???????????

It is our job to work with the doctors to figure out what to do. Do we keep giving them pain killers that they are addicted to? I think each case is different. My dad had terminal cancer, so it didn't really matter if he was addicted to the Oxycontin or not. He was in pain and dying. There are other cases where the person needs to be detoxed in a safe place and get services for the disease of addiction IF that is the case. There are other people who need to get off the pain killers, get detoxed safely, get addiction treatment, and gety reevaluated for pain control.

Each patient is an individual. It is a nurses's responsibility to figure out what is going on and what their patient needs in the form of HELP. It is totally unprofessional to say, "This is a drug seeker-no pain meds". I am comforted to read the last few posts and see that nurses are recognizing this.

How dare any nurse judge her patient. Even if the patient is strictly a drug addict with NO pain-the patient is still sick and needs referral to a rehab for safe detox and follow-up help. Krisssy RN MA MHPNP 2 be

[SmilingBluEyes]

I agree with fergus. I treat the patient's pain seriously and give meds as ordered/requested. Not for me to judge this one.

[GLORIAmunchkin72]

Holy Cow!

Originally Posted by Huganurse

Oxycodone:
In 1995 there was 1 death and 12 confiscations in the county I live in. In 1998 there were 17 deaths and 26 confiscations. Last year in 2000 there were 43 deaths and 73 confiscations.

Need more? The number of prescriptions of oxycodone increased from 316,000 in 1996 to 5.8 million prescriptions in 2000!!

Oxycontin has a street value of $40 - $80. each pill in our area.

This is a problem far greater than the problem of treating patients for chronic pain.

[squeakykitty]

[francescafree<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_1484361", true); </SCRIPT>
Registered User
The same friend who did not believe that my UC pain was, well, painiful,recently described how her husband woke up one night with severe pain, which turned out to be a kidney stone, and berated him for being such a baby about a little pain! ]


That "friend" is in the wrong profession

[krisssy]

Originally Posted by GLORIAmunchkin72

Holy Cow!

It is my understanding that the more Oxycodone one takes, the more he or she will need to have the same effect. So if a person becomes out of control as the pills alter the mind, he or she can overdose. Oxycodone and all Opiates affect respiration. Too much , and you can stop breathing. That is why a patient cannot be turned away from an ED. Once we get the patient in, that is our chance to HELP by getting a family intervention and getting the person into a rehab immediately. You turn them away as a drug seeker, they may very well leave your hospital, get it somewhwere else, overdose and die. Krisssy

[steelcityrn]

Whatever the pain is, either from a actual dx, or in someones mind, we are their to help and understand. As far as dx of fibromyalgia, there has been studies done a few years back of brain scans of pt's without F.M., and of those who were in actual pain with this syndrome. There were actual color changes on the scan of the pt's brain while in pain. Finally these folks were vindicated. Our job is to observe s/s of pain, relay all findings to the Dr, and follow the medication order as prescribed...period!

[krisssy]

Originally Posted by steelcityrn

Whatever the pain is, either from a actual dx, or in someones mind, we are their to help and understand. As far as dx of fibromyalgia, there has been studies done a few years back of brain scans of pt's without F.M., and of those who were in actual pain with this syndrome. There were actual color changes on the scan of the pt's brain while in pain. Finally these folks were vindicated. Our job is to observe s/s of pain, relay all findings to the Dr, and follow the medication order as prescribed...period!

I agree with you completely. My mother drove us all crazy with the disease of Somatization for her whole life. She is 81 and thank God, going strong. But until the invention of an antidepressant called Pamelar, the woman suffered in real pain-every part of her body. When the Pamelar worked, and the pain disappeared, I knew she was really feeling the pain. She was lucky to have found a medication that wasn't addictive. But her pain was real. Krisssy

[Crumbwannabe]

Isn't immediate treatment for hyperglycemia or hypertension; or buying laxatives or decongestants "drug seeking"? Of course it is. If I go to my M.D. because I have an abcess and need antibiotics, I am seeking a drug, otherwise, I wouldn't be sitting in an office and shelling out money. I can see no moral import to the term "drug seeking", and plenty of shock value and abandonment of responsibility.

Of course in a time when our country is "addicted to oil", has "Drug Czars" (Czar may be translated as despot), and an endless string of nonsensical terms used for mere semantic value, some tend to be careless with words. But it is generally at the very time that words must be the most precise. Else If I am addicted to oil, I should certainly be in treatment in hopes of becoming 'oil-free'.

If it is your judgement that someone is faking it to get a fix, (must be nice to be able to do such in-depth diagnosis in such a short period), then by all means, say it, and make arrangements to get them some detox assistance immediately. I mean, as a DSM diagnosis, addictive behavior must be addressed as a medical problem just as sure as a hot appendix.

If someone hurts, they hurt. Take it to the lowest common demominator. I have seen more instances of 'good people' who we all need to be protected from than people of good will. Usually what Peter says about Paul tells me more about Peter than it does Paul. Don't let people hurt because it makes you a hero in the "Drug War", or because of your own predjudices about a drug, or a person who is perhaps in need of hygene, or fill in the blanks, lest I be branded as one who stereotypes. I expect a professional to be critical enough to avoid being influenced by overblown media and self-perpetuating politicians, and especially to have enough respect for their own autonomy / ethics to seperate out the nonsense, and act like a professional faced with a unique problem in a unique patient.

This nonsense rubs off on families who take care of elderly family members and then dismiss expressions of pain as "attention seeking", or some other excuse to offer them relief or consult a practitioner. I have seen it before, and I am seeing it happen now, though without power of atty, I can do little.
I have seen 'professionals' put a patient on a cold table in a cold room, and refuse him a blanket saying "F!@# him, he's just an alky".(Yes, I got the warm blanket). But then, these are the kind of people in the profession who perform according to their predjudices and gut feelings. And if a few 'bad eggs' continue to practice, we can certainly allow for a few as patients without getting too self-righteous.

[krisssy]

Originally Posted by Crumbwannabe

Isn't immediate treatment for hyperglycemia or hypertension; or buying laxatives or decongestants "drug seeking"? Of course it is. If I go to my M.D. because I have an abcess and need antibiotics, I am seeking a drug, otherwise, I wouldn't be sitting in an office and shelling out money. I can see no moral import to the term "drug seeking", and plenty of shock value and abandonment of responsibility.

Of course in a time when our country is "addicted to oil", has "Drug Czars" (Czar may be translated as despot), and an endless string of nonsensical terms used for mere semantic value, some tend to be careless with words. But it is generally at the very time that words must be the most precise. Else If I am addicted to oil, I should certainly be in treatment in hopes of becoming 'oil-free'.

If it is your judgement that someone is faking it to get a fix, (must be nice to be able to do such in-depth diagnosis in such a short period), then by all means, say it, and make arrangements to get them some detox assistance immediately. I mean, as a DSM diagnosis, addictive behavior must be addressed as a medical problem just as sure as a hot appendix.

If someone hurts, they hurt. Take it to the lowest common demominator. I have seen more instances of 'good people' who we all need to be protected from than people of good will. Usually what Peter says about Paul tells me more about Peter than it does Paul. Don't let people hurt because it makes you a hero in the "Drug War", or because of your own predjudices about a drug, or a person who is perhaps in need of hygene, or fill in the blanks, lest I be branded as one who stereotypes. I expect a professional to be critical enough to avoid being influenced by overblown media and self-perpetuating politicians, and especially to have enough respect for their own autonomy / ethics to seperate out the nonsense, and act like a professional faced with a unique problem in a unique patient.

This nonsense rubs off on families who take care of elderly family members and then dismiss expressions of pain as "attention seeking", or some other excuse to offer them relief or consult a practitioner. I have seen it before, and I am seeing it happen now, though without power of atty, I can do little.
I have seen 'professionals' put a patient on a cold table in a cold room, and refuse him a blanket saying "F!@# him, he's just an alky".(Yes, I got the warm blanket). But then, these are the kind of people in the profession who perform according to their predjudices and gut feelings. And if a few 'bad eggs' continue to practice, we can certainly allow for a few as patients without getting too self-righteous.

WOW great post! Thank you .