[lifeisbeautiful]

Originally Posted by Jen911

Okay, now a view from the other side of the fence. I have a chronic pain problem for which I have prescribed narcotics.

You are lucky that you have a physician that actually listens to you and is willing to treat your chronic pain. My mom suffers from chronic pain as well (she has severe RA, fibromyalgia, Sjogren's syndrome and scleroderma), so I know all to well the needless suffering that one can endure.

This leads me to how pain is dealt with in our society. I feel that pain is under diagnosed and under treated. With all of the fantastic analgesics available for people in pain, why aren't they being used? I personally, would rather be a 'drug addict' and free of pain than, than to suffer, be debilitated, angry and depressed. I feel that this is why many nurses are tempted to steal narcotics. I think many are truly in pain, are not being treated appropriately, but at the same time have easy access to drugs that can relieve their pain. Not that it gives them a right to steal, but I bet if many of these nurses were adequately treated for their pain the temptation to steal drugs would drop drastically.

Then again, I am a person that feels all drugs should be legalized and I don't even take them. Our society wastes so much money and man-power on the 'war' on drugs.

ETA:
I don't really don't see how counting narcs is going to catch chronic thieves. If someone is going to steal drugs on a routine basis, don't you think they would cover their a** and make sure that the count is correct? It doesn't take much creativity to figure out how to steal narcs and keep the count correct. Example: A nurse draws up and dilutes dilauded. They have 10 doses in the syringe. The patient gets 3 doses, the nurse gets 3 doses, 6 doses of administered drug is documented. Patient is adequately medicated, nurse has narcs as well as the correct amt. of drug to waste. Do this to a few patients and one has a lot of medicine at the end of the shift.
I have also been told that nurses obtain narcotics from PCA pumps (while setting them up). The vial in the machine has to be purged. Someone told me that you just put a needle on the end of the tubing, then insert the needle into a NS vial, purge the pump narc goes into the vial (instead of the trash where it should be going), remove needle from tubing and hook pump to patient.

Scary, huh?

[GLORIAmunchkin72]

What happened to her?

Originally Posted by luanne101

Am I that nieve?? A nurse on my unit was arrested for"drug diversion" Is this rampant among us?? I know we have all taken the occasional tylenol from work, but controlled substances ??

[ZZTopRN]

Originally Posted by chicoborja

I, like everyone else in this forum, oppose diversion of narcs from patients but possibly contrary to some in this forum, I don find anything immoral with pocketing wasted meds. It is the equivilant to saying that dumpster diving is unethical. With that said, it should be known that I realize that there is a difference between CNS stimulants/depressants and an old couch. I would like to pose a question though: Which nurse would be more damaging, the exhausted, overworked one with a splitting headache and an inability to concentrate adequately or that same nurse w/o pain but with a slight euphoria as a result of hydrocodone? I don't think there is a clear-cut answer to that question but feel it should be left up to those health professionals that have the ethical means (diversion of waste) to obtain those meds. After all, either way it is that person's license on the line, not yours. Oh, I am aware of the patient's life that is subject to the care of that professional but I must refer you back to my previous question regarding which of the two nurses would be more effective btw the one with the ha and stress or the relaxed euphoric one, like I said b4 I don't think there is a clear-cut answer.

I was working in a LTC where someone placed 5 drugs in my purse, 3 Darvon, 1 Haldol, 1 liorisel and then the police were called and I was arrested. I find this curious since I had access to Valium, other benzodiazapine, and narcotics. What the heck would I want with a Haldol? The charges were dropped. But I find it curious that the BON placed me on suspension and wants me to renew my license with probation, meaning have my prospective employers acknowledge to the Board I am on probation? What's with this? I acknowledge the seriousness of nurse drug abuse. I've even had my own charge nurse "giving my patient's their Demerol"because I had "such a patient load."

I am fighting to get my license cleared of this. I think the BON is going overboard, for what reason, I don't know. Probably political. Any thoughts?

Thanks

mv

[Cubby]

Originally Posted by morghan

I want to add a comment here with respect to substance abuse
among the medical profession(esp alcohol) The national statistics indicate that one out of 4 Americans is either affected by an
alcoholic or is alcoholic themselves. Given that number, a fairly
large percentage of physicians and nurses may be impaired. I think it is unfortunate that people are fired, perhaps with the
exception of use on the job or diverting narcs. Many otherwise
productive people are lost. A mandatory treatment program
with follow-up monitoring might be one option. I know... I've been sober 16 years; IF PEOPLE WANT TO BE CLEAN AND SOBER BADLY ENOUGH, FOR THEMSELVES, THEY WILL SUCCEED, ONE DAY AT A TIME. Self-help organizations such as AA and
NA do help. Maybe a good CEU or training course for management might be how to recognize the impaired nurse/physician. Often people don't know the signs of narcotic dependence /etoh dependence. Just a thought.
PsychRN

I totally agree with you. I have been sober 4 years now Never liked (pill form) drugs, but it takes all types though huh? Unfortunately I have heard on this board that there are a lot of Nurses who do not see Alcoholism/Drug addiction of any form as a disease. We do not have the will power to better our selves. Pretty sad in this day and age.

[prmenrs]

Please note that the original post is OVER TWO YEARS OLD!!!.

[earle58]

Originally Posted by prmenrs

Please note that the original post is OVER TWO YEARS OLD!!!.

there have been other mods that have pointed out the age of old threads.
does this mean they should be closed?
i guess i'm missing your point.

leslie

[fab4fan]

Perhaps two years ago the person who just responded to this thread was not a member.

Sheesh...if it no longer interests you, don't read it! New members should have a right to reply to threads, no matter how old they are. If it's such a problem, then maybe threads after a certain time frame should drop off.

[Elija]

As a recent graduate (18 months ago) I remember a statistic from a class I had about life, relationships, and other misc. stuff that effects nurses lives. It was reported in class that of the average population, 30% (margin of error 2.5%) have an abuse or addiction problem, be it with alcohol, prescription drugs, or illicit drug use. Nurses top the charts of all professionals with a whopping 38% with an abuse or addiction problem with the same list of substances. As an adult child of an alcoholic with brothers who are in recovery for their problems, I was often frightened by behavior exhibited by fellow students and now people I work with and what it has or will become.

[sheliamd]

Originally Posted by Elija

Originally Posted by prmenrs
Please note that the original post is OVER TWO YEARS OLD!!!.

What difference does it make how old a thread is...as new students, we are still interested in the things affecting the nursing community..regardless of how long ago. The question--is the issue still relevant to nursing today? If so, then we want to view as many points as possible regarding the subject.

[mamabear]

Originally Posted by morghan

I want to add a comment here with respect to substance abuse
among the medical profession(esp alcohol) The national statistics indicate that one out of 4 Americans is either affected by an
alcoholic or is alcoholic themselves. Given that number, a fairly
large percentage of physicians and nurses may be impaired. I think it is unfortunate that people are fired, perhaps with the
exception of use on the job or diverting narcs. Many otherwise
productive people are lost. A mandatory treatment program
with follow-up monitoring might be one option. I know... I've been sober 16 years; IF PEOPLE WANT TO BE CLEAN AND SOBER BADLY ENOUGH, FOR THEMSELVES, THEY WILL SUCCEED, ONE DAY AT A TIME. Self-help organizations such as AA and
NA do help. Maybe a good CEU or training course for management might be how to recognize the impaired nurse/physician. Often people don't know the signs of narcotic dependence /etoh dependence. Just a thought.
PsychRN

I just gratefully celebrated 6 years clean and sober yesterday, and it's reassuring to me to know that there are others out there who know: what it used to be like, what happened, and what it's like now. Keep coming back!