[Hydakins]

I also am a student and assignment sheets like that mostly are guidelines to help gather information for care maps/plans and/or charting. You must pick what questions pertain to your patients situations. There are 50 ways to ask for one piece of information and the assignment sheet will NEVER list all 50 for each topic listed. Thats where the practice of communication skills and learning to deal with different types of people come into play. I highly doubt that the students were to ask those questions in a blunt manner. I think its just a guideline to follow although I dont know about that "what is the cost of your home" question. If it was inherited, it still has a cost--I dont understand that question at all.

As for liver palpation, we were shown how to do it but--I agree with everyone else-that IS for advanced practice professionals.

[NewbieEDRN]

When I was in nursing school, we asked patients similar questions as part of our patient assessment tools (aka care plans). We were required to ask these questions when interviewing the patient. First we asked the patient's permission to interview them, and if they felt uncomfortable answering certain questions, we just documented that they didn't feel comfortable answering. It really wasn't a big deal. I NEVER had a patient that verbalized a problem with me asking about sexual orientation, # of sex partners, safe sex practices, or any other question.

Also, we were taught how to palpate the liver as part of our complete head to toe assessment. I've never actually done it in a clinical setting (only in lab on fellow students), but I wasn't aware of any rule stating only MDs, PAs, and NPs could do it.

[CookieCritter]

Wow

Those questions are invasive to me. Maybe it is the wording. I don't mind being ask about my sex life or orientation from the NP that I see but I know her already and have an established relationship and she doesn't word anything like that.Nor would she ask me "how it was". I could see that being relevant if I or another patient came in with a complaint of pain during intercourse or something like that but on a med/surg floor me thinks not.

I would be tempted to be sarcastic on some of those like the infancy question....beats me how mine was, ask my parents I don't remember it. Also be careful of the orientation question like you mentioned.

How many students would be able to handle "swinger" being said to them when everyone assumes all sexual orientation is either heterosexual, homosexual, or bi? Something to consider because that is an orientation as well. Just wonder how many people could really manage to not register shock, or judgment if that was said to them.

Far as palpating livers I say your school is asking for someone to be knocked senseless or sued. Although I start clinicals in April and am a student myself there are some things I don't want any students doing on me and palpating my liver is on my list, just like IMR's are now on my no way list when a student injected my depo shot in my sciatic nerve a year ago.

Now if I had to take something subcutaneously I would let a student do that on me. But some stuff I'm not answering or allowing unless I have an established relationship with my provider already.

[ta-sscns]

I am currently a senior nursing student and I can remember having for fill out similar worksheets with very similar questions. I felt as though they were a little too personal but our instructors said that it was just part of life and part of getting an acurate health history. It was supposed to help us identify risk factors and make suggestions for change. We didn't actually tell the patients that they needed to change their life styles, but we had to come up with diagnoses and care plans based on the data collected.

As far as palpating the liver...I don't believe that you need a Dr.'s order to do that...I have never been told that. As a student, all we have been told is that there are certain circumstances where it shouldn't be done, but not always.

[muhaha]

We were taught to deep palpate livers

We were never told in my assessment class that it was only for advanced practice...

I wonder why some schools teach it this way and others tell you that you arent allowed to deep palpate?

[CookieCritter]

Originally Posted by muhaha

We were taught to deep palpate livers

We were never told in my assessment class that it was only for advanced practice...

I wonder why some schools teach it this way and others tell you that you arent allowed to deep palpate?

That is a good question and something schools need to get together on with the hospitals they are doing clinicals with. I wonder if the variation has to do with individual states/provinces laws and if the federal rulings are some type of gray area left up the states or what.

I also wonder if it depends on whether the school is a community college or a 4 year or private vs state run. I

guess I should start asking around. Either way certain stuff has the potential for some nasty litigation in some areas so something needs to be done either way to make sure that everyone is on the same page with each other.

[psychnurse1998]

Originally Posted by linnywho

I am asking here because I am not sure where to post it. I am a med/surg nurse. Students from a local university are being asked to fill out a 13 page nursing assessment. Some of the questions on this form seem in appropriate.

This assessment is for a med/surg 2/3 class.

Students are doing clinical on a MACU unit, skilled nursing unit, etc.
Examples:
What is your sexual orientation?
Do you have sex?
If so, how is it?
How was your infancy, childhood, adulthood?
How many people live in your home?
What is the cost of your home?
<O></O>
The school is also asking students to palpate the liver. This brings up an entirely different issue related to patient safety. I am afraid that a student could cause a rupture in an alcoholic patient or worse. I am not even sure if a student is allowed to perform such a procedure. I have never done that and would assume I would need a doctor's order if I did.

<O></O>I am getting a copy of the assessment tomorrow from a student and taking it to my unit manager. But I wondered if these questions were now considered the norm for nursing school now? Or do others feel the students are crossing an ethical or moral threshold asking these sorts of things?

Thanks,
Linny

The questions are so ludicrous, I am surprised some news station hasnt learned of that questionaire. I think Rush Limbaugh would get lots of mileage out of it. It almost sounds like a questionaire printed by a company peddling Viagra or someone that wants your home when you move on to the hereafter. "is the sex good"? I can what the next question would be. I wonder how parent from a fundamentalist church would feel if their teen daughter was asked that question?

[EricEnfermero]

Do you have a CNS, educator or director that would be willing to contact the school's clinical instructor? That might be the best way to address the questions, rather than making individual students feel like they're being pulled in two separate directions.

[jjjoy]

Our ridiculously long and unrealistic patient assessment form was similar to that. I don't remember the specifics, but it was four pages long and for any given patient only about 1/4 was relevant to the issue the patient was admitted for. But we had to fill the whole thing out as thoroughly as possible. I'd let them know that this was a student requirement and that they could choose to not participate at any point. That is in reference to the multitude of questions and full physical assessment we were supposed to do, not the relevant patient care and assessment needs.

I think the idea was to drill it into our heads not to only focus on the medical diagnosis of the patient and but to also remember to address psychosocial issues and/or keep alert for other health concerns/symptoms. It felt a bit like overkill to me. And meanwhile, we never formally learned how to do focused assessments.

[psychnurse1998]

Originally Posted by jjjoy

Our ridiculously long and unrealistic patient assessment form was similar to that. I don't remember the specifics, but it was four pages long and for any given patient only about 1/4 was relevant to the issue the patient was admitted for. But we had to fill the whole thing out as thoroughly as possible. I'd let them know that this was a student requirement and that they could choose to not participate at any point. That is in reference to the multitude of questions and full physical assessment we were supposed to do, not the relevant patient care and assessment needs.

I think the idea was to drill it into our heads not to only focus on the medical diagnosis of the patient and but to also remember to address psychosocial issues and/or keep alert for other health concerns/symptoms. It felt a bit like overkill to me. And meanwhile, we never formally learned how to do focused assessments.

s
Sorry but something is wrong here. I think nursing educators are showing poor judgment if they dont modify what appears to be intrusive questions. My first reaction, after disbelief, would be NUNJA...hope everyone knows what that means..and its not the NUNJA turtle.. Perhaps an alternative would be a check box. Stating..the following information is of a very personal nature, do you feel comfortable talking to a staff member about sexuality issues. Added maybe. the facility feels it can give you more invididualized care if we know your sexual orientation or sexuality problems. If someone wants to know how my love life, I feel I have a right to ask the same question back.

But I do think its important to some how let the client know, what information is available before hand. I dont know that that has to be done on a direct basis, as it could be done by a brochure or other less direct way of educating a client.