[Larla]

Sorry if I was not clear. The balard program is a program my hospital has. You must work every Saturday & Sunday and one day in the week. In return you receive per-diem which total 16 hours in a two week period.
It is great but you are giving up every weekend!

Make sense?

[Larla]

I'm sorry, I was spelling "Balard" wrong.....it's Baylor.

[pantheon]

Originally Posted by Larla

I'm sorry, I was spelling "Balard" wrong.....it's Baylor.

Hi Larla, Well, now I get it! I still can't find even Baylor in Websters or Tabers dictionary but I understand what you mean. Your hours add up to 160 hours a month which is like working full-time. That sounds like an awesome schedule. Plus you probably get an extra differential fee for working on the weekends! You go girl! Thanks for explaining. I thought I was losing my mind! I'm one of those people that doesn't pretend and in nursing I don't think anyone ever should. If I don't understand something I'll be the first one to say it. With patients and family members I just say let me get some literature for you to make it easier. That way I don't look or sound like an idiot. Thanks again!

[pantheon]

Originally Posted by JoAnne2005

I HATE the 12 hour shifts. To me, this is something hospital administration has "snowed" nurses into believing is a great benefit when it actually most benefits the hosptial. For example:

- When have your ever really worked a 12 hour shift? Most of the time it is a 13 or 14 hour shift. And yet, do you earn overtime? Nope, because you probably never get to the over 40 hour mark to start earning overtime. Benefit goes to the financial administrator of your hospital.

- When you are off (trying to recover!) how many times have you received desperate calls to work extra shifts because the unit is short? Hospital Admin sees our "4 day off time" as a much expanded potential work force to be drafted PRN. And, sadly, so many nurses cave in and agree to work more, even when tired and still recovering from regularly scheduled shifts.

- When working your 12 hour shifts, do you get expanded times for "breaks" (the Tech's do)? Do you get to leave the floor and take a leisurely lunch break for at least an hour because you never get to take breaks? Nope. You just keep plowing on all day long, jumping everytime the call bells go off, or a doctor calls, or a transportation person needs help moving a patient, etc.... Do you get paid for the time you didn't take a break or lunch?

- How is your nurseatient ratio? If staffing is "short" a 12-hour shift can really be exhausting AND create great potential for error if you are carrying a high patient load. And when counting patient load...don't forget to count all the admissions and discharges during your shift. I once worked at a hospital that promoted the folklore that "we staff a 4:1 ration." The truth was that you never had less than 5 or maybe 6 patients on days. And, during that day it was not unusual to discharge 2 or 3 and get 2 or 3 new patients. By my count, this really means that I had anywhere from 6 to 9 patients that long 12+ hour day.

- Do you like working like a "coal miner" - going in in the dark and comming home in the dark? Are you overweight or nutritionally deficient because you eat main meals at 10 PM after getting home so late and fall into bed to repeat the process the next day?

- Is your family missing you at dinner or other family time events that usually take place prior to your late arrival after a 12-14 hour shift which is almost 50% of your life?

- Think of it this way.... why should you work yourself down so hard for 3 days a week that it takes you a day or two to "recover" from working so hard? Work should fit into your life so that it takes some energy but not enough to where you loose several days trying to rest up so you can go and do it all over again!

These 12+ hour workday situations are now so common that it is quite hard to find a position that offers 8 hour days. But I have found one and I am very happy to be living what I consider a "normal" working life.

Just my opinion. Thanks for letting me sound off!

Hi, I just read your reply and I have to commend you on being so honest! I 100% agree with you. I'm glad someone else realizes what these hospitals are trying to get away with. Thanks for sounding off!!!!!!!!

[psychnurse1998]

Originally Posted by JoAnne2005

I HATE the 12 hour shifts. To me, this is something hospital administration has "snowed" nurses into believing is a great benefit when it actually most benefits the hosptial. For example:

- When have your ever really worked a 12 hour shift? Most of the time it is a 13 or 14 hour shift. And yet, do you earn overtime? Nope, because you probably never get to the over 40 hour mark to start earning overtime. Benefit goes to the financial administrator of your hospital.

- When you are off (trying to recover!) how many times have you received desperate calls to work extra shifts because the unit is short? Hospital Admin sees our "4 day off time" as a much expanded potential work force to be drafted PRN. And, sadly, so many nurses cave in and agree to work more, even when tired and still recovering from regularly scheduled shifts.

- When working your 12 hour shifts, do you get expanded times for "breaks" (the Tech's do)? Do you get to leave the floor and take a leisurely lunch break for at least an hour because you never get to take breaks? Nope. You just keep plowing on all day long, jumping everytime the call bells go off, or a doctor calls, or a transportation person needs help moving a patient, etc.... Do you get paid for the time you didn't take a break or lunch?

- How is your nurseatient ratio? If staffing is "short" a 12-hour shift can really be exhausting AND create great potential for error if you are carrying a high patient load. And when counting patient load...don't forget to count all the admissions and discharges during your shift. I once worked at a hospital that promoted the folklore that "we staff a 4:1 ration." The truth was that you never had less than 5 or maybe 6 patients on days. And, during that day it was not unusual to discharge 2 or 3 and get 2 or 3 new patients. By my count, this really means that I had anywhere from 6 to 9 patients that long 12+ hour day.

- Do you like working like a "coal miner" - going in in the dark and comming home in the dark? Are you overweight or nutritionally deficient because you eat main meals at 10 PM after getting home so late and fall into bed to repeat the process the next day?

- Is your family missing you at dinner or other family time events that usually take place prior to your late arrival after a 12-14 hour shift which is almost 50% of your life?

- Think of it this way.... why should you work yourself down so hard for 3 days a week that it takes you a day or two to "recover" from working so hard? Work should fit into your life so that it takes some energy but not enough to where you loose several days trying to rest up so you can go and do it all over again!

These 12+ hour workday situations are now so common that it is quite hard to find a position that offers 8 hour days. But I have found one and I am very happy to be living what I consider a "normal" working life.

Just my opinion. Thanks for letting me sound off!

I have been waiting for a reply that addressed almost exactly how I feel. Other posts against were good also, I think yours comes closer. I continue to be puzzled, how so many bright intelligent people can be sold a bill of goods..that is against their interests and they turn around and defend it. Albeit, this is stricty my opinion, not meant to offend anybody with my perception. The sad thing is unsung heros here in this country died to establish the 8 hr day, and we are giving that right back. As we see the retirement age going higher and higher...think about what it will be like working 12 hours at age 70. Will you walker be able to endure?
This almost reminds me of our electoral system..If we are offered Chicken poopooh to vote for one one hand, and Cow poopooh on the other, we feel we have a choice. I myself want none of the above..
I think it would take several pages to attempt to refute your arguments.

[NurseCherlove]

Originally Posted by JoAnne2005

I HATE the 12 hour shifts. To me, this is something hospital administration has "snowed" nurses into believing is a great benefit when it actually most benefits the hosptial. For example:

- When have your ever really worked a 12 hour shift? Most of the time it is a 13 or 14 hour shift. And yet, do you earn overtime? Nope, because you probably never get to the over 40 hour mark to start earning overtime. Benefit goes to the financial administrator of your hospital.

- When you are off (trying to recover!) how many times have you received desperate calls to work extra shifts because the unit is short? Hospital Admin sees our "4 day off time" as a much expanded potential work force to be drafted PRN. And, sadly, so many nurses cave in and agree to work more, even when tired and still recovering from regularly scheduled shifts.

- When working your 12 hour shifts, do you get expanded times for "breaks" (the Tech's do)? Do you get to leave the floor and take a leisurely lunch break for at least an hour because you never get to take breaks? Nope. You just keep plowing on all day long, jumping everytime the call bells go off, or a doctor calls, or a transportation person needs help moving a patient, etc.... Do you get paid for the time you didn't take a break or lunch?

- How is your nurseatient ratio? If staffing is "short" a 12-hour shift can really be exhausting AND create great potential for error if you are carrying a high patient load. And when counting patient load...don't forget to count all the admissions and discharges during your shift. I once worked at a hospital that promoted the folklore that "we staff a 4:1 ration." The truth was that you never had less than 5 or maybe 6 patients on days. And, during that day it was not unusual to discharge 2 or 3 and get 2 or 3 new patients. By my count, this really means that I had anywhere from 6 to 9 patients that long 12+ hour day.

- Do you like working like a "coal miner" - going in in the dark and comming home in the dark? Are you overweight or nutritionally deficient because you eat main meals at 10 PM after getting home so late and fall into bed to repeat the process the next day?

- Is your family missing you at dinner or other family time events that usually take place prior to your late arrival after a 12-14 hour shift which is almost 50% of your life?

- Think of it this way.... why should you work yourself down so hard for 3 days a week that it takes you a day or two to "recover" from working so hard? Work should fit into your life so that it takes some energy but not enough to where you loose several days trying to rest up so you can go and do it all over again!

These 12+ hour workday situations are now so common that it is quite hard to find a position that offers 8 hour days. But I have found one and I am very happy to be living what I consider a "normal" working life.

Just my opinion. Thanks for letting me sound off!

AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN!! Hospitals are some of the most greedy entities one will ever encounter!!! I am so sick of the CLUELESS big-wigs having ANY say in what we do or how we do it!

Ya know, I recently made the move to nights (as well as to another unit), thinking that I would get to have a little down time and just an overall, somewhat slower-paced 12 hours to deal with. But from the last few shifts I've worked, I am very seriously considering just getting out of this hospital work crap!!! It's too much. I am not the only one who feels that way either. One seasoned nurse the other night was on the verge of tears as she had something fairly acute/critical going on with like 4 of her patients and + had to complete 2 admissions. Myself, I had CP for like 10 straight hours the other night.

God, I want to do all I can for all of my patients, but I don't want to die from catecholamine intoxication in the process! Being a hospital nurse is just inhumane many times!!

Sorry for the rant - didn't mean to hijack your post!

[jjjoy]

Originally Posted by gerry79

Working 8 hours make me feel like my day is compressed and I feel rushed, after all I have the same amount of patients working an 8 or 12 hour day.

But with a longer day, you also have more things to accomplish. Those additional 4 hours also come with more orders, more admits/discharges, etc. I guess the benefit is that you already know the patients so you don't need to start from scratch those last 4 hours.

Still, I'm wiped out after 8 hours and can't function on 12-hour shifts for more than a few days at a time. So continuity of care doesn't improve day-to-day. And, like some, the first day off after a couple of 12-hour shifts is a total wipe-out. Finally, since I can't get anything more done than eat and sleep between shifts, I almost feel like I never left.

[gerry79]

Although many feel 12 hour shift are a sham, we do have a choice. I like working 12 days a month and having 18-19 days off. Yes 12 hour shifts can be exhausting, but so can 8 hour shifts. I would not want to have to come in 5 days in a row, I do enjoy my 4 days off. Thats the wonderful thing about nursing, we can choose to work odd hours. 12 hour shifts works for some, and not for others, for me I would have it no other way.

[twotrees2]

Originally Posted by psychnurse1998

It has been my experience that most of my medical errors have occurred towards the end of shift, when I am most fatigued, and this is with an 8 hr shift. I work with nurses that like to do doubles, and many times one has to help them because they are to tired, or one feels like one should help them. 12 hours shifts do not make sense to me from a health and safety point of view. As nurses we should realize our bodies need rest. We are health role models for other workers, so what kind of example are we giving them. I wonder if a study has been done comparing med errors by nurses that work 12 hr shifts versus 8 hr shift nurses. My guess is that is higher. So my question is..are 12 hour shifts good for your health, and the well being of your patients?

i think that is determined by each individual- i do T think it is safe or healthy when it is the BOSS deciding it ( ie forced OT) - i used to work 12's and enjoyed em - had most of my week to do whatever and slept while kids were at school - was more difficuylt when kids werent in school - then it wasnt so safe cause i wasnt getting sleep during the day. as of now with my health even 8 hours can be pushing it - lol - so as i siad depends on person and situation and thier life.

[pantheon]

I have always worked 8 hour shifts and at the end of the shift I was pretty exhausted. My co-workers worked 12 hour shifts and then an 8 hour shift to equal 40 hours a week or 80 hours in a 2 week period. Some even did 16 hour shifts! I found that time and time again these nurses made a lot of mistakes and became grumpy and lazy as the end of the shift approached. The only thing I can say is that the nurses were given the choice of what shift to work, that part I liked. Also the hospital wanted to make sure you reached the full 40 hours a week. When I started another job that only had 12 hour shifts, I never felt so tired and emotional in my life! It was way under staffed and the PCA's were not much help. I also realized I felt ripped off. I was working my a*s off and not even reaching the 40 hours a week. The hospital was the one gaining from all of this. So needless to say I got out of there and will never do that again. Sounds great 36 hours a week but with no overtime and feeling like crap NO THANK YOU!