[earle58]

in u.s. society, success is defined by how much $$ one makes.
to onlookers, owning a gorgeous house and fancy car, are impressive and enviable.

it has been my experience, however, those who consider themselves truly successful, are those who live a simple life, surrounded by loved ones, solid support systems, and staying true to oneself.

this seems to be universal, and not just in our country.
when our core needs are fulfilled, everything else inevitably renders trivial or meaningless.

leslie

[Ogopogo]

I worked for a fabulous and wonderful plastic surgeon for a year. He did mostly regular plastic and reconstructive surgery, but also did some cosmetic surgery.

He has an EXTREMELY supportive wife who looked after the house and children. From my prospective, he had a great family life, but I was only his secretary and sure didn't know everything that went on.

BUT, he worked LONG, LONG hours. He was on-call every 3rd of 4th day and every 3rd or 4th weekend. Getting a full week off seemed nearly impossible. His surgical waiting list was 4 years for elective surgeries.

His family probably sees a lot less of him than a regular non doctor dad/husband.

He did though own a very huge and beautiful house, expensive cars, kids in private school etc.

I have no idea if it's "all worth it" to him. He is an extremely dedicated and caring surgeon though, with no arrogance or chip on his shoulder.

Oh, and as for a stressful life---you bet. How could it not be? He has people's lives and future functioning in his hands. Constantly being asked to see "just one more consult", surgical complications and follow-ups, paperwork galore, etc. VERY STRESSFUL!!!

[HeyJude]

I don't think you could pay me enough money to be a surgeon, or any other sort of MD.

[TheCommuter]

Originally Posted by HeyJude

I don't think you could pay me enough money to be a surgeon, or any other sort of MD.

Same here. MDs have 24-hour responsibility for their patients, which is something I'd never want to live with. The liability issues faced by physicians are another reason why I'd never want to be a doctor. I'd love to earn the six-figure income per year that most MDs rake in, but I'd hate to deal with the rest of the issues that seem to follow.

[happydays352]

Being my Dad is an MD I've met a surgeon or ten. Most of them are great guys, all of them are divorced. I think that says a lot for their family life, most of them are army though so that doesn't help matters. I think that has to be one of the most stressful jobs ever and I would never want to do it. Hats off to those that do.

[Diahni]

Originally Posted by rph3664

I know a woman whose husband is an ophthalmologist. She said there were several specialties where people should not have children, and the main one was cardiology. She had never heard of a cardiologist who had a happy home life; the job takes so much out of them, they have nothing to give their families. Their divorce rates are astronomical; they have incredibly high rates of suicide, alcoholism, and domestic violence and they do not appear to have normal life expectancies; and their children, whether biological or purchased (don't kid yourself, a lot of people do this), are usually physically attractive and high achievers but we all know that "trophy children" are quite dysfunctional on many levels. The men are the kind who trade in their decent, respectable wife for a drug-addicted stripper, you know?

She added that the ophthalmologists she knows appear to have the same rate of personal and family dysfunction as the general population. Ditto family practice, pediatrics, dermatology, and oddly, OB/GYN.

Dunno, my impression is doctors are like everybody else - some a real jerks, some are wonderful. It would be interesting to see the statistics on divorce. My casual impression is the a lot of nurses are divorced, but I don't know about doctors. As for "Trophy children," I have a so-called trophy daughter - good grades, good looking and doesn't get in trouble. But dysfunctional? No way - the kids with bad grades are dysfunctional. Don't know what looks have to do with it, although wealthy people, which I suppose includes some doctors, can and do marry good looking women, so it's no wonder the kids are good looking. It used to be that a male doctor was a real catch - no so any more. Two of my sisters are married to doctors, and I would, frankly, rather put a drill up my nose.
Diahni

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by cyberkat

My uncle was a cardio-vascular surgeon.

He was constantly under stress and worked 80-90 hour weeks. Patients, as they are everywhere, expected miracles.

His family rarely saw him.

He paid a fortune in liability insurance.

I never saw him with a chip on his shoulder, but then people rarely did get to see much of him, so who knows?

He decided it just wasn't worth it, and one day, he turned in his scrubs. He downsized his house and cars and he and his wife bought a small jewelry store. (Go figure.) He says he doesn't make nearly as much as he used to, but they're comfortable. He sees his wife and kids every day, and he's much happier.

There's a critical access hospital in a small town not far from where I live who recently hired a general surgeon.

Where did he come from?

A large East Coast city, where he was the director of liver, kidney, and pancreas transplantation.

I thought, "Either this guy P'd off a lot of people, or he simply burned out." I was relieved to learn, from someone whose husband works at that hospital, that it was the latter. He still wanted to do surgery but not with all the pressure that transplant surgery entailed, and also wanted to live in a rural area.

As for "trophy children", what I meant was that you and I all know, or know of, children who feel that maybe their parents will love them if only they're perfect enough, or whose parents force them into things they aren't interested in to make themselves look good. And as for "buying" kids, don't kid yourself, that goes on all the time. There's a different between using a surrogate because you can't bear your own kids, or adopting for this reason or because you want to give a child a home, and doing those things just to avoid the inconvenience of pregnancy. Like raising a child isn't inconvenient?

I'm quite aware that the divorce rate among nurses seems to be higher than the general population as well. I had always thought it was because of their hours and job stress until I worked at an HMO clinic, and at least at that clinic, it was because of the kinds of men they had married. Ex-convicts, men in their 30s who had never had a job, men with serious addictions, that kind of thing, and they knew the men were this way before they ever went out with them. Very, very co-dependent. One of these nurses was living with a man who had done time for rape and child molestation, but didn't have a problem with it because her 11-year-old daughter adored him. Several of them had ex-husbands who refused to pay child support because she was sending the money to guys in prison, but him having custody wasn't a good idea either.

It seems that a lot of the hospital nurses where I work went to school after they were divorced. Some had good relationships with their exes and others didn't, just like the general population. And there's a situation in my family where a male nurse's wife left him for another man, therefore freeing him up to pursue relationships with men as well, which completely shocked a lot of people.

[Diahni]

Hi

As for "trophy children", what I meant was that you and I all know, or know of, children who feel that maybe their parents will love them if only they're perfect enough, or whose parents force them into things they aren't interested in to make themselves look good.

D:Yeah, I know kids like that - it's really setting a kid up for a lifetime of unhappiness, as if they're only lovable if they're making the parents proud.


And as for "buying" kids, don't kid yourself, that goes on all the time. There's a different between using a surrogate because you can't bear your own kids, or adopting for this reason or because you want to give a child a home, and doing those things just to avoid the inconvenience of pregnancy. Like raising a child isn't inconvenient?


D:Oh my! How inconvenient can it get - we just bought our kid a car - she crashed it, so my wings are clipped until hers gets out of the shop. Let me count the ways - this is what I don't understand - why don't some people know that not only do you have a new life when you have kids - you are also a new person. I've often wondered about these famous babes who have other women implanted with their embryos. Is it legal to do this just because you don't want to go through with pregnancy? Sounds illegal.


I'm quite aware that the divorce rate among nurses seems to be higher than the general population as well. I had always thought it was because of their hours and job stress until I worked at an HMO clinic, and at least at that clinic, it was because of the kinds of men they had married. Ex-convicts, men in their 30s who had never had a job, men with serious addictions, that kind of thing, and they knew the men were this way before they ever went out with them. Very, very co-dependent.

D: I have noticed this myself - female nurses (cuz I know the male ones are a whole other ball of wax) are the kind of people you want for best friends. I hate to characterize some of this a enabler, co-dependent, etc. Some of us are so willing to do for others, and these kinds of people often become nurses. As for loser guys, okay, I have lots of wonderful female friends - not nurses - yet many of them married loser guys, not once, but twice. Why? Not their fault - there are a lot of guys out there with big time problems. All the good ones are married, and if they're not married, they're gay. Sadly, gay guys would make wonderful husbands, I think.


One of these nurses was living with a man who had done time for rape and child molestation, but didn't have a problem with it because her 11-year-old daughter adored him.

D:AHHHHHHHHHHH! You know why!

Several of them had ex-husbands who refused to pay child support because she was sending the money to guys in prison, but him having custody wasn't a good idea either.

D: Here's another trend - my husband is a musician - a lot of his friends are married to nurses - hey, somebody needs reliable employment! Joke: What do you call a musician without a wife or girlfriend? Answer: Homeless.

I think nurses are perceived as strong, real caretakers, so that maybe these messed up guys think they died and went to heaven when they meet a nurse. But women have to take care of themselves. Another issue is that (my own observation) that for the most part good girls get to live vicariously through bad men. My best "good girl" friends married the motorcycling, coke snorting wild guys. No thank you!
I like the straight shooters.

Diahni

[SharonH, RN]

Imagine this being a topic for discussion on a nursing board! I can't imagine pondering for longer than half a second the lifestyle of a surgeon.

[Agnus]

Originally Posted by RealNurseWitch

Both of them could house entire homeless families in their noses.