[NP2BE]

Let me preface this by saying I am around nurses, and nursing students more so I don't get to hear the other side but that being said.....

Why do nurses constantly feel the need to throw jabs at physicans at every turn. "Dr. never listen" "that resident did this" That medical student.."

This is a form of professional insecurity. It showls a lack of professionalism. If we want to show our professionalism, we should respect other professions. And I have said this before and heard " well they should respect us" Are we in the 3rd grade? Our competency should speak for itself, we don't need to degrade ouselves by whining and acting like babies.

Just my .02

[Marie_LPN, RN]

Nor do we need to degrade ourselves by generalizing a whole profession(s).

[talaxandra]

While I hear what you're saying, most of the criticism I hear aimed at doctors (and other health care providers) tends to be specifically about individuals: "Dr X never listens to the patient", "that's the social worker who decided Mr Y's wife could manage at home without supports", "Jane never does mouth care."
While praise tends to be less frequent, it's just as heart-felt, particularly with physicians who actually listen - not only to us, but to their patients (and doesn't it seem to be that if they listen to one they listen to the other as well?).
There are always going to be individuals who fail to measure up. As doctors are the individuals who have the greatest potential to negatively impact on our practice, and on our patients wellbeing, I think flagging issues is no big problem. If I know that resident Z doesn't ever come up to the ward to review a patient, and it's not just that she's busy right now, I'm less likely to wait before either being more forceful or going over her head. If I know she will try half a dozen times to site an IV I won't leave her alone with the patient but will stay to monitor the situation. There's a fine line sometimes between venting, forewarning a colleague, and whingeing, but there's a line there nonetheless.
This is not intended as a dig at you, NP2B, but I think nurses need to spend a lot less time worrying about whether or not we're seen as professionals by the people with whom we work. Doctors (and allied health) talk about which of us can be relied upon, and they gossip; I'm sure they don't debate about whether that behaviour's professional or not. Generalised griping, b****ing and moaning isn't professional behaviour, true, but I think a better reason not to do it is that it's not productive.

[Dr. Gonzo]

What wrong with criticizing doctors they usually blame a Nurse for everything.

[manna]

the axe swings both ways....

[NP2BE]

Generalised griping, b****ing and moaning isn't professional behaviour, true, but I think a better reason not to do it is that it's not productive.[/quote]

Excllent point

[NP2BE]

Originally Posted by LPN2Be2004

Nor do we need to degrade ourselves by generalizing a whole profession(s).

sorry for the generalization

[unknown99]

Originally Posted by NP2BE

Let me preface this by saying I am around nurses, and nursing students more so I don't get to hear the other side but that being said.....

Why do nurses constantly feel the need to throw jabs at physicans at every turn. "Dr. never listen" "that resident did this" That medical student.."

This is a form of professional insecurity. It showls a lack of professionalism. If we want to show our professionalism, we should respect other professions. And I have said this before and heard " well they should respect us" Are we in the 3rd grade? Our competency should speak for itself, we don't need to degrade ouselves by whining and acting like babies.

Just my .02

Just curious, are you a nurse??? If so, then you have nerves of gold. If not, then let's wait and see how long it takes for that attitude to change, after you become a nurse.

[NP2BE]

Originally Posted by sagarcia210

Just curious, are you a nurse??? If so, then you have nerves of gold. If not, then let's wait and see how long it takes for that attitude to change, after you become a nurse.

I have no problem with the fact that my role as an RN will be subordinate to docs who, while I may dislike and disagree with them, they know more than we do. And while I may complain about docs plenty when I get into the field, it will be for good reasons ( like the post about the doc who canceled the angiocath appt and dc'd coumadin thereby possibly causing someone a stroke, this is a good reason to complain), not petty generalized ones.


Well, so far in nursing school, I hear so many instructors, preceptor nurses, fellow nursing students say things that just sound, mmmmm, insecure. They (the ones making these statements) will have me beleive that
1 all drs are incompetent, noncaring and money grubbing egomaniacs
2 All nurses are competent and super in the area of caring\
3 try so hard to show how "professional" nurses are that they dog out another profession, medicine

I know many docs have ego problems and are difficult to work with, but I think a cohesive atmosphere shoould be promoted, not an adversarial one.
The reality that many nurses cringe at is, Docs are more highly trained than us nurses, and they are the ones that make the decisions. And we should give credit that they care about patients too although it may not show;If for no other reason then it will cost them more money if they screw up.

[zambezi]

QUOTE NP2BE
I have no problem with the fact that my role as an RN will be subordinate to docs who, while I may dislike and disagree with them, they know more than we do. And while I may complain about docs plenty when I get into the field, it will be for good reasons ( like the post about the doc who canceled the angiocath appt and dc'd coumadin thereby possibly causing someone a stroke, this is a good reason to complain), not petty generalized ones.
***

I feel that you are mistaken when you say that nurses are subordinate to doctors...We are a different profession...we obtain valuable information that guides the patients care, we teach about diagnoses and lifestyle changes, we manage high acquity patients use clinical judgement...we carry out the doctors orders but are in no way "subordinate" (at least I will never see myself as subordinate, I do not and will not carry myself in that way)...we should be considered teammates, if anything. Both parties should have the main goal of health and wellness for that individualized patient. I only have experience working in critical care, but the docs value my opinion, I know what I want and need most of the time when I call the doc, if I need something I ask for it, and when I don't know, the doctor uses my judgements and report to make his clinical decision...sure that are docs that I don't always agree with or even like but it is my job to care for the patient and keep his/her wellness and recovery in the forefront of my mind...if not the patient, then I care for the family...


I know many docs have ego problems and are difficult to work with, but I think a cohesive atmosphere shoould be promoted, not an adversarial one.
The reality that many nurses cringe at is, Docs are more highly trained than us nurses, and they are the ones that make the decisions. And we should give credit that they care about patients too although it may not show;If for no other reason then it will cost them more money if they screw up.[/quote]
***


I agree that a cohesive atmosphere should be promoted. I don't think that nurses are cringing at the fact that doctors are more extensively trained...the fact is, they are. That doesn't mean that they always make good decisions...some doctors are excellent...some I would't send my cat to. You are correct in saying that they make the decisions, but as part of our practice, we are allowed to question decisions and take other avenues of action should it be necessary...

My husband is kicking me off the computer now, but if I think of anything else, I'll add it later! Final point: we are a team...you are right when you say that the bit**ing and moaning should be cut down...I do feel that the nursing profession is struggling to fight off an image that it has had for a long time...Who knows where it will lead?