[llg]

In addition to what elkpark said ...

I think the role also got started in the schools because schools get money in the creation of new programs in the form of grant money and research dollars to create and evaluate a new approach.

Also, faculty members get grant money for their research into the new roles -- and get to publish articles on the new programs. Those publications get them promotion and tenure.

Neither the grant dollars nor the publications come if all you are doing is preparing great nurses in the traditional programs. The fame, glory, and money comes in creating something new -- with a new title.

[merellis2009]

As a CNL graduate myself I thought I could help answer some of your questions and concerns and dispel some of the rumors/myths about CNL programs.
1. CNL's function in the generalist role. We are not CNS's. We are not advanced practice nurses (unless you attend Vanderbilt which has a longer program and allows their students to become advanced practice.)
2. When you graduate with a MSN and after you earn your CNL certification, you are beginning as a regular RN like any other brand new RN at the bedside. However long you remain in that staff nurse role is dependant upon you, your employer, how quickly and comfortably you build your skill set, and your employer's understanding of the role itself. If your employer doesnt have a clue about the CNL role and they are not supportive, then chances are you will not be moving onto that role. However, if you are lucky enough to find a great place that supports the CNL vision, then your chances of course would be much better.
3. I must say that I have to disagree. I don't think just any seasoned RN could function as a CNL because of the nature of certain required graduate level courses that CNL students must take. Graduate level biostatistics, graduate level epidemiology, graduate level research courses, and graduate level management courses are all integral to the function of the CNL. Without that framework, even a seasoned RN could find himself/herself floundering in the role.
4. No one is saying that the MSN is a substitute for "doing your time" as a staff RN and having others recognize you and respect you over time. The CNL students that I know don't look at it that way at all. We're out there just like the rest of the "new nurses" trying to get into our own groove and provide the best care for our patients possible for right now. Then some of us (not all of us) plan on moving forward with our chosen paths and moving into the role. As for me, I am considering becoming a CNM/FNP and utilizing the 2-3 roles together.
5. Mia, you were concerned about how valuable your MSN degree and CNL certification would be if the role were to turn sour. Well, if that were to occur, then at the very worst, you'd still have your MSN degree. No one would be able to take that from you.

If anyone really wants to know about the CNL just google "AACN white papers clinical nurse leader" and read the actual description. It can tell you quite a bit!

[atyler2]

I am a CNL, I am very proud of it and glad to be in the position I am in. For me to go complete the program, become certified and carry this title is something I have worked extremely hard for and to hear some of you say the CNL is what seasoned RNs are doing now is bologna! If so, AACN would not have seen the need for this program and created it as they do every other program in nursing! Furthermore, if you have not gone through the program then you have no idea what it is like, what a CNL is supposed to do and the impact it can make in the healthcare setting. Also, I think the point has been touched on but not directly stated, that regardless of what you are trained to do an institution will want to use your skills for what they see best and need most. So, there may be CNLs out there working in positions that others may see as "not what they are supposed to be doing" but that is what was negotiated and accepted by the person performing that job. I think for someone that wants to obtain graduate-level education without becoming advanced practice should look at the CNL program and consider it. And as for those of you who say you're just paying for graduate education and not really getting it, get a life! If you haven't been through the program, how can you validate or disregard our education?! Really, who died and made you president??? This is exactly the problem with nursing, many nurses are more concerned with picking apart what is wrong with the other whether it be education or otherwise instead of being glad that there are more people turning to nursing for a career ( i.e. creating a less stressful work environment by having more staff) and wanting to enhance their education. What we may need to be concerned with is raising the educational standards for nursing altogether and maybe that will edge out some of the more unprofessional, catty, petty, unenthused, undedicated, impassionate, lackluster-performing "nurses" altogether who sit around thinking of ways to tear apart other nurses and giving their unwanted and unsolicited opinions on other nurses are doing with their professional lives! EXCUSE ME for wanting more for myself and reaching for higher goals!

[ukstudent]

Originally Posted by atyler2

This is exactly the problem with nursing, many nurses are more concerned with picking apart what is wrong with the other whether it be education or otherwise instead of being glad that there are more people turning to nursing for a career ( i.e. creating a less stressful work environment by having more staff) and wanting to enhance their education.

There are thousand of new nurses turned out every year. Working short staffed is not caused because there are not enough new nurses, or nurses period. it is caused by facilities not hiring enough nurses and the deliberate creation of stressful working conditions.

What we may need to be concerned with is raising the educational standards for nursing altogether and maybe that will edge out some of the more unprofessional, catty, petty, unenthused, undedicated, impassionate, lackluster-performing "nurses" altogether who sit around thinking of ways to tear apart other nurses and giving their unwanted and unsolicited opinions on other nurses are doing with their professional lives! EXCUSE ME for wanting more for myself and reaching for higher goals!

If you knew the nurses responding to this ASKED FOR OPINION you would not be calling all of us petty, and unprofessional. Not one of the posts has had anything against the people trying to obtain this degree.

[elkpark]

Originally Posted by atyler2

I am a CNL, I am very proud of it and glad to be in the position I am in. For me to go complete the program, become certified and carry this title is something I have worked extremely hard for and to hear some of you say the CNL is what seasoned RNs are doing now is bologna! If so, AACN would not have seen the need for this program and created it as they do every other program in nursing! Furthermore, if you have not gone through the program then you have no idea what it is like, what a CNL is supposed to do and the impact it can make in the healthcare setting. Also, I think the point has been touched on but not directly stated, that regardless of what you are trained to do an institution will want to use your skills for what they see best and need most. So, there may be CNLs out there working in positions that others may see as "not what they are supposed to be doing" but that is what was negotiated and accepted by the person performing that job. I think for someone that wants to obtain graduate-level education without becoming advanced practice should look at the CNL program and consider it. And as for those of you who say you're just paying for graduate education and not really getting it, get a life! If you haven't been through the program, how can you validate or disregard our education?! Really, who died and made you president??? This is exactly the problem with nursing, many nurses are more concerned with picking apart what is wrong with the other whether it be education or otherwise instead of being glad that there are more people turning to nursing for a career ( i.e. creating a less stressful work environment by having more staff) and wanting to enhance their education. What we may need to be concerned with is raising the educational standards for nursing altogether and maybe that will edge out some of the more unprofessional, catty, petty, unenthused, undedicated, impassionate, lackluster-performing "nurses" altogether who sit around thinking of ways to tear apart other nurses and giving their unwanted and unsolicited opinions on other nurses are doing with their professional lives! EXCUSE ME for wanting more for myself and reaching for higher goals!

The OP started this thread by asking for opinions about the CNL role from "the field." So sorry you don't like what you're hearing ...

[GGCC]

I went to a university that offerred this degree - as a direct entry RN.

These students were in the same classes as the BSN students, but they were held to higher minimum passing grades and had to do additional papers and presentations. They got exactly the same lectures from exactly the same faculty. BUT they paid A LOT more for it.

The CNL's I graduated with are working at the same type of job I am - RN. (Also the same as people who got ADN's from a community college.) Same pay for all of us.

They may have more options open to them in their futures, but as entry level, BSN, ADN, CNL, all equal to RN.

If you look at hospital job postings on their websites, the jobs for clinical leaders ALWAYS require clinical experience. Seldom is the master's degree required, it's just preferred.

As an aside, my school no longer allows people who already have a bachelor's in another field to enter the BSN program. They are forced into the CNL program. I can't believe this is anything other than a money grab.

[yajaira]

From what I understand.. and this is information I have received from a CNL student, is that a CNL would work with a team of bedside nurses on a unit in the same way that an attending physician does at a teaching hospital.

In the sense that there is a hierarchy between the attending the resident.

At least that is how it was explained to me.

[ukstudent]

Originally Posted by yajaira

From what I understand.. and this is information I have received from a CNL student, is that a CNL would work with a team of bedside nurses on a unit in the same way that an attending physician does at a teaching hospital.

In the sense that there is a hierarchy between the attending the resident.

At least that is how it was explained to me.

An attending earns his/her way into that job. He/she did not graduate from medical school and become an attending. They earned the title by going though years of clinical experience, first as a resident and then as a fellow. The resident with little to no clinical experience does not out rank the attending with multiple years of clinical experience.

It is the years of clinical experience that is missing in becoming a CNL that has some of us scratching our heads about the degree. I however hope it works out for all the CNL's out there.

[anhelo]

Hello, I'm trying to figure out the best way for me to get into nursing also. So, is graduate level entry nursing (to become an APN) program better than a CNL program?

[traumaRUs]

I'm an adult health CNS and personally, I have found their is much confusion about the CNL role. In my area, we have one college of nursing that has both a CNL as well as CNS degree programs.

I think that in the end, the ability to land a meaningful job is what we all want. So...at least for me, I wouldn't choose a CNL because it is not a proven degree yet. In another 5-10 years, maybe but not now.