[BRANDY LPN]

Originally Posted by gettingmymsn

"Out of curiosity, why do you all think people refuse the drug screens when they are requested? Honestly, I don't really think that if you have grounds for refusing a drug screen, you ought to be practicing nursing..."

Many people refuse drug/etoh tests because it offends their sense of privacy and civil rights. We also have a policy that "erratic or potentially volitile" behavior can result in drug testing. Who decides that? Not having anything to hide is NOT a reason to compromise your personal rights.I smelled a strong etoh odor on one of the docs, but he was not asked to take a drug test. Instead, he sucked on mints all day and slept in an empty room.I am not saying we should be co-dependant with collegues who have drug problems, but we do need to protect their rights, too.

Also in this particular scenario there was the matter of principle, she said she would take one if the doc did, maybe it wasn't the smartest thing to refuse as far as keeping her license intact but there is a thing called integrity and employers should be just as accountable for it as they expect their employees to be.

And to the poster who said she should have been more careful- can you honestly say you have NEVER made a med error? and if yes then how long have you been practicing? B/C EVERYONE makes mistakes, at least this nurse owned up to her mistakes at great personal risk and did what she needed to do to care for her pts. That should count for something.

[Mommy2Katiebaby]

Well, yeah, but honestly, what about the rights of the patients? I worked with an RN once who was so flaky she lost her SHOES in the middle of a code once. No clue how she managed this. That girl gor drug tested practically every time she stepped onto the floor, but they were always negative, she always agreed to the test graciously, and eventually the admin team quit bugging her and she didn't need to stress over it anymore. Why fight the battle if you can just go pee in a cup and have it over with? It just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

[z's playa]

What may not be a big deal to some, is a big deal to others. There's no right or wrong here.

[Mommy2Katiebaby]

Originally Posted by z's playa

What may not be a big deal to some, is a big deal to others. There's no right or wrong here.

Right, I'm not saying there is. I was just curious as to why of all the battles there are to be fought in nursing, and with how hard this job is to do when conditions where you work are GOOD, people might choose this one. It does seem likely, from the experiences of people here, that refusing a drug test has the definite potential to compromise both your job and your quality of life, not to mention forcing you to become involved with government agencies and possible licensure risks. So what I was wondering was, aside from the obvious "It's the principle of the thing" response, why some folks might choose to put their energy into the battle anyway.

Again, I'm not an advocate of taking away anyone's civil rights, but there are certain professions in which I definitely think that those being served need some extra protection. I don't want my airline pilots (bus drivers, etc.) using drugs, and I think since they are illegal, it's not a violation of someone's civil rights to ensure that that person is not at risk for harming someone vulnerable because of their own illegal activity.

[z's playa]

I totally agree with you on that one. (pilots, doctors ,nurses) Sometimes however..... by reading some of these stories, there just doesn't seem to be a justifiable basis to order someone to take a UDS...or too many petty reasons.

I know if I was ordered to take more than my share of UDS's I'd be upset. Especially if just a co worker has the power to rise suspicion in me. I'm trying to make sense here but the words aren't coming out right.
For example..a drug goes mising...test everyone..ok.
A co worker I KNOW has it out for me ....spread rumors and as a result I'm tested all the time ...not good.


I need an aspirin. I can't even spell.

[mattsmom81]

Just a comment regarding drug screens for every incident or accident. Does anyone here suspect (like me...LOL) that these rules are 'really' thought up to discourage reporting of errors, accidents or incidents??

It was corporate policy at my last hospital for a nurse to be drug tested for EVERY reported incident, accident or major error. Whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty?? Immediately the spotlight is on the NURSE.

I guess I can understand some refusing on principle. Nurses are bullied into coming into work sick and on cough syrups that contain codeine, with aching backs or knees, and perhaps taking Tramadol or Vicodin, etc. What are the chances this will be used against the nurse?? Not every nurse wishes to open up the can of worms by announcing to the EHN she is taking Vicodin for dental work, etc. This info alone can be used against a nurse. So she may be wrong no matter what she does.

One of my coworkers was using an herbal medicine for weight loss and she tested positive on her drug screen...found after an incident at work..she had a mild stroke on the job, ended up admitted, TPTB drug tested her and voila... opened up all kinds of problems for her and ended up with her being fired. Very sad story but shows what can be done with info. The truth is she had health problems (Lupus) and they used this info to get rid of her...

[z's playa]

Originally Posted by mattsmom81

Just a comment regarding drug screens for every incident or accident. Does anyone here suspect (like me...LOL) that these rules are 'really' thought up to discourage reporting of errors, accidents or incidents??

It was corporate policy at my last hospital for a nurse to be drug tested for EVERY reported incident, accident or major error. Whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty?? Immediately the spotlight is on the NURSE.

I guess I can understand some refusing on principle. Nurses are bullied into coming into work sick and on cough syrups that contain codeine, with aching backs or knees, and perhaps taking Tramadol or Vicodin, etc. What are the chances this will be used against the nurse?? Not every nurse wishes to open up the can of worms by announcing to the EHN she is taking Vicodin for dental work, etc. This info alone can be used against a nurse. So she may be wrong no matter what she does.

One of my coworkers was using an herbal medicine for weight loss and she tested positive on her drug screen...found after an incident at work..she had a mild stroke on the job, ended up admitted, TPTB drug tested her and voila... opened up all kinds of problems for her and ended up with her being fired. Very sad story but shows what can be done with info. The truth is she had health problems (Lupus) and they used this info to get rid of her...

That's so sad! I'm telling you...I'm going to start a thread regarding the persecution of nurses. Whenever we go on a narcotic for whatever..do we have to report it right away to whoever needs to know? Do we need to tell them what its for too? I wouldn't want to. Its none of their darn business if I have a toothache or a cyst or WHATEVER. If I tell them I need to be put on light duty (no meds) and show them the script...I've taken responsibility and that should be that. Right?
Even if they say whatever you say here is strictly confidential and doesn't leave the room...hospitals are notorious gossip mills.

[snowfreeze]

My one Major confrontation with a doc was questioning his approach in front of all 8 residents he was rounding with. ie, some testing he ordered for a dying patient...I asked what the test would show and then what he planned to do with those results to comfort this patient. Nothing would be done with the results, the test could cause some discomfort and I then stated......So what you are telling me is that this patient has become a classroom experiment? (probably not good wording but I am a patient advocate)
He didn't appreciate that one. I had 3 of the 8 residents come to me the next day and shake my hand as I had stated what they were afraid to.
It was a few days later reported that I couldn't set up a Swan-ganz monitor properly nor could I run a Cardiac Profile in a timely fashion.
This incident happened when we had all the monitors in use so I had to scrounge equipment from CCU and the OR and it took me 2 1/2 hours to come up with all of that and run the cardiac profile. Plus what I got was some of the older equipment and had to run the profile on the computer instead of having a quick readout.
I took the retaliation 'slap' well, I went back on orientation as far as setting up these gadgets and running a profile.
Next he decided I couldn't draw a blood gas properly.
This was one the doc couldn't draw radial either and went for a femoral finally. ( I can't draw femorals)
I went to the head intensivist and told him the whole story and if he wanted to get feedback from the residents and other staff he was welcome too but this doc was just now being a simple bully.
Well that ended and I didn't have to be re-taught how to draw blood gasses.
Knowing your advocates and enemies helps too.

[patientsNOTpaychecks]

"Also in this particular scenario there was the matter of principle, she said she would take one if the doc did, maybe it wasn't the smartest thing to refuse as far as keeping her license intact but there is a thing called integrity and employers should be just as accountable for it as they expect their employees to be.
And to the poster who said she should have been more careful- can you honestly say you have NEVER made a med error? and if yes then how long have you been practicing? B/C EVERYONE makes mistakes, at least this nurse owned up to her mistakes at great personal risk and did what she needed to do to care for her pts. That should count for something."

EXACTLY! i completely agree

[Nurseprotect]

My response is based on several years of assisting nurses with board of nursing complaints through Nurseprotect.


<<< No offense but I really don't think we are hearing the full story. >>>

Chad, offense taken - but you are typical of MOST nurses on the planet when it comes to a complaint against a colleague's license. That nurse MUST have done something wrong.

To the nurse who started this thread, don't waste your time and energy trying to convince these people of what you and I already know - even if they pretend to be supportive, they will still assume that YOU are the problem - that is one way that humans protect themselves from believing that bad things could happen to them.

I do not see this mentality changing and I do not see our lot improving in this nasty trade.

<<< To my knowledge unless you had a med error which caused a death or an adverse reaction I don't see why the hospital would report it to the BON, there just simply is no reason to.>>>

Why is there no reason to report all errors? Just because a patient was harmed or died, what is the difference between a good outcome and one that results in death when an error occurs? Read the literature on this topic - the EXPERTS ask this question often.

<<< Two missed doses being means for action on your license? Well I guess myself and 99.9 of the nurses on this board need to turn in our licenses. >>>

ALL of the nurses, myself included, would need to turn in our licenses. NOBODY practices without error.

As if errors were not enough, do you know the other things that a board could come after you for? If I told you, if I presented legal documents, you would not believe me. . . Just don't **** off your manager, administrator, or other nurses and you might be ok.

This nurses story is so common that I don't even get angry anymore when I hear about this type of retaliation. It is simply that rotten way things are in nursing. It is NOT going to change soon. With this being said, and multiple case files of evidence attesting to this fact, there are still too many nurses who refuse to believe what I have written. I will not change this fact.

Our system is VERY sick. Errors are used by administration if and when it is convenient for them to discredit a nurse - especially a nurse that points out dangerous practices within a system.

This retaliation has been well documented in nursing literature. Case files of the evidence exist in nurse attorney's offices nationwide -- worldwide. NOTHING has changed for many years and I don't foresee it changing any time soon.

Of course, it will NEVER happen to you/me because you/I are/am such a good, conscientious nurse. . .

With that said,

Happy happy joyous fricken New Year to all of my nurse colleagues! : )

Steve Lee, RN
nurseprotect@earthlink.net
512-740-1841 mobile
Austin Texas - home
and
San Diego/Los Angeles California - work