[Dayray]

I'm not sure what others experiences are all I can speak of are my own. As a male nurse in a predominately female profession I have seen both advantage and disadvantage being a male.

A year ago I was looking for a new job and I found that some hospitals were eager to talk with me once they learned of my gender but others were not. Some came strait out and said they didn't want men working in their department and others made flimsy excuses that were obviously untrue (when they have a website saying they have 12 open positions). On the flip side though I did have some say that they would like to have me because of the added diversity.

Another issue I have heard come up is the way doctors and management treat male nurses. This is another area where I have experienced both extremes. I have had some doctors/managers that obviously treat me with more respect and others that openly ridicule me and treat me like crap.

I am by no means an expert on gender issues or a human resource person but I wonder if some the differences aren't brought about by personality type. I have been in health care for a long time and I have noticed that many times male nurses feel that they have to prove themselves and go to great lengths to do this. Because of the view people have of men in nursing many feel that they must show that they do belong in nursing. I've noticed that allot of guys tend to go overboard to show that they "know their stuff". This could explain why more men end up in managment positions.

In our culture we have many bias's one is that men should be aggressive while women should not. This could account for some of the disparity. Now please don't misunderstand me because I'm not saying that everyone does or should fall into these stereotypical roles. What I am saying is that our culture has taught us to expect certain personality types from each respective gender. As children we are taught these "roles" i.e. If a boy plays football and knocks the crap out of the other teams player he is praised where as if a girl does the same she would be seen as not fitting the expected role for her gender. So being taught this at an early age we tend to act the way we know people expect us too.

For example when I was offered my current position I really wanted it but I turned it down because I knew they would offer me more money if I did. Once they offered me more I negotiated with them until I felt I was getting the most they would offer.

So while I can believe that their are some cases where men might receive better treatment/pay, I find that many times the disparity is overstated and misunderstood. So please don't go around holding grudges against male nurses with the assumption that they receive more pay/recognition because of their gender.

You also have to consider the down side that men face in nursing. I watch peoples reactions when I tell them I'm a nurse and I don't get the same reaction that my friends do. Some openly laugh and say "Isn't that a girls job?" others look surprised and change the subject and many many times the next question they ask is "do you have children?" which is code for "are you gay?" Another aspect of this is constantly having to answer the "so why did you go into nursing" question that I get when ever I meet a new nurse, they don't ask other women. Everyone gets to have an opion on male nurses and weather it's good or bad it's a constant remider that you have gone aginst the gender norm.

So I guess what i am saying is that I can believe that some of the things in this report are true and although I find gender inequality disgusting I think that it is more of a cultural bias and fairly complicated rather then an out and out blatant decision by management to pay one gender more then the other.

Where do we go from here? for 1 don't let yourself be ruled by these silly cultural rules. Secondly teach your kids that men and women can be aggressive or non aggressive as the situation requires.

I tell my daughters that they can do anything a boy can do and I tell my son the same thing.

[geekgolightly]

Originally Posted by Dayray

For example when I was offered my current position I really wanted it but I turned it down because I knew they would offer me more money if I did. Once they offered me more I negotiated with them until I felt I was getting the most they would offer.
....

Where do we go from here? for 1 don't let yourself be ruled by these silly cultural rules. Secondly teach your kids that men and women can be aggressive or non aggressive as the situation requires.

Excellent point. I know that, of course, there are female exceptions(thank goodness!), but for the most part, I think that this is the cultural hingepin for women not earning as much as men. This is not to say that I am laying the blame at our collective female feet, as we are still raised differently from men and so without concerted effort, we act and react differently in various situations, but I do believe, just by more aggressive tactics (and unfortunately, I do believe that women need to watch their lipstick and mind their stockings while acting in an aggressive manner, which i HATE) we can receive better pay.

Companies are greedy. They will hire anyone as low as they can hire, men and women. And I bet there will still be a discrepancy even if women begin to be more aggressive, but I also believe that the discrepancy will be less than it is now.

One more way to advance in terms of pay.

[Bertil]

Originally Posted by Brickman

Do you honestly think that men are just handed promotions? Could it be that just like women who are promoted it has something to do with attitude, personality, and actively seeking these positions.

I don't think so! There is definitely a problem here! A well known study over here in Holland showed that the carierre opportunities for men in nursing were fare higher. This was compared with policewomen who have difficulties to make carriere in the police jobs. (the study was called, crownprinces and cinderella's ans is not translated, i am sorry)

[arkansas_girl]

Kudos to that guy!!!^^^


And this is just wrong... Equal pay for equal work. I honestly thought that was supposed to be illegal (or something to that effect) to do other wise.

[Energizer Bunny]

Why do we need more men in nursing to save it exactly? Anyone know? This makes NO sense to me!!! What...nursing is going to disappear? Are people going to start taking care of themselves if there aren't men in nursing?

[nursemike]

Don't really see inequality in my hospital. In nursing, that is. Most of the "suits" are men. More and more women docs, but boss docs mostly men. Nursing Services is predominantly female, except at my level--I'd say about 60% male orderlies, maybe 70%.
I have to admire the guy who walked over unequal pay. I like to think I would do the same, but I don't know. The nursing shortage would make it a lot easier to stand on principle, but still, it wouldn't be easy to walk away from a job you wanted.
Apparently there are cases of actual unfairness, but there are way too many variables to make a sound conclusion from the raw statistic. For example, I actually saw a report that men tend to choose higher paying specialties, like CRNA. Also, it's possible men are doing more overtime. Also--not meaning to be a sexist--little boys don't grow up thinking, "I want to be a nurse, someday." Meaning, I think men may be less likely to get into nursing impulsively and out of nursing disillusioned. Isn't it possible the average male nurse now working has been in nursing longer than the average female? If, for example, there were a million women in nursing, but half with <5 yrs. experience, and a thousand male nurses, but only a quarter with <5 yrs., it would look like men were overpaid.
Don't know about promotions--I'm willing to take your word for it, but in my hospital, we have one male nurse director. That's more than 6% or our nurse directors, but it's hard to hire a fractional man.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a bleeding-heart liberal, and I'm sure women get a raw deal in many areas, but from where I sit, nursing is one of the exceptions. It's also problematic to compare nursing wages to other occupations. I'll make only a little more per hour as a nurse than I did as a carpenter, but a lot more per year. And I do think nursing must compare fairly favorably to a lot of male-dominated occupations, since a lot of men are going into it. Although I do agree with TeeItUpTom that being around women is a non-cash incentive which may not appeal as much to a lot of women.
As I recall, the OP on the "why do we need more men?" thread was generally skeptical of the idea, and most of us thought the main advantages were a.) stronger backs and b.) diversity of viewpoints. I can only think of one who appeared to think we were going to "save" nursing. Frankly, I find beating that horse kind of offensive. All I really want is to make a decent living doing useful, honest work, and if I can help some people in the process, that sounds pretty good to me.

[1styear]

Why do we need more men in nursing to save it exactly? Anyone know? This makes NO sense to me!!! What...nursing is going to disappear? Are people going to start taking care of themselves if there aren't men in nursing?

I've read a few times that experts feel that when men join a career choice it becomes more stable and experiences less turnover. In addition when men have entered fields like teaching they have been great organizers and lobbyists therefore benefiting all in the field. As a side note, I love when there are men on the floor because they tend to not be as moody and are always willing to crack a joke and make the day a little more fun. I know, I know, that's a total generalization so I'll have to say that has been only MY experience.

[fergus51]

Teachers here have all the same complaints as nurses, so I usually use that as an example of how a profession has failed to be saved simply by the addition of men. Even in nursing, professors with a masters degree generally make less than nurses working on the floor.

[Dplear]

BULLSHITE...

Any one is capable of making the same salary in nursing. Men may make more because as a general rule we negotiate for our money. If they do not offer what I want I do not take the job. You have to let your feet do the talking sometimes and be willing to say no to what is offered. NEVER EVER TAKE FIRST OFFER!!!

Dave

[teeituptom]

Originally Posted by longtermcarern

Where I was previously employed, there was 2 nurses hired at the same time. One of each gender. They got to talking one day and she found out that despite her experience, he was hired in at about 4.00 an hour more. He was so upset about the inequality of it that he left the job with a note pinned to the bulletin board next to the time clock stating until all nurse were treated and paid equal; he could not work for that company. Strangest thing I have ever seen.

Damn, he was stupid