[Spidey's mom]

Scientists at MIT (and many other places) are working hard on finding out what causes autism and all evidence points to genetics.

http://web.mit.edu/giving/spectrum/s..._progress.html

http://www.boston.com/news/science/a...agile_promise/

I did immunize all my kids - except the chicken pox vaccine was not available when my older kids were young and all 3 got it at the same time. I have a photo of them all, ages 7, 5 and 1, in an oatmeal bath and they are covered in red spots.

My 4 year old did not have the vaccine - I just don't see the point to vaccinate against something we all have had - chicken pox. The serious complications are rare.

steph

[marilynmom]

Originally Posted by GLN35

I checked out the pages you listed, the first two pages are biased and not good sites to source scientific research. Their pages are filled with a lot of misinformation, and not enough facts. As for understanding the information, it takes patients and an open mind(years of chemistry helps as well).
I am a scientist at heart and I need unbiased facts, so not only did I go to the pages you listed and checked out the ingredients. I also got the MSDS sheets of the most common brands of antifreeze with ethylene glycol(chemically listed as 2-ETHANEDIOL and 2'-OXYBIS) as the active ingredient. After doing comparisons and talking with a chemist and a chemical engineer(yes, I have been busy tonight) it is evident to me that 2-phenoxyethanol(that is in vaccines) is not that same chemical as the two I listed above in antifreeze. I could not find the chemicals I listed in any of the ingredient listings for the vaccines. I could find the one you listed but it is not used to manufacture any commercial antifreeze products it is a preservative used in health and beauty products, veterinary medicine, as well as many of the foods we eat everyday.
The link you provided for ethylene glycol ethers is to a general category of chemicals solvents not a specific chemical, as we know from medicine many drugs can sound alike but do very different things.
I do feel it is very important to be fully informed in our decisions as consumers, but we need factual, not anecdotal sources for our information. If you like I could provide the links to the MSDS sheets and the information pages for the chemicals listed. I hope this helps.

Actually I appreciate you posting this! Since this discussing I have been kinda looking into this a bit more myself these past two days and have came to the same conclusion myself.

God, let me tell you I try to find unbiased sources, that is not easy to do with this issue at all sometimes. Or maybe I think I am looking at a fairly unbiased source and it turns out not to be.

Anyways, thanks again. I DO NOT want to be spreading false information to anyone or dupe myself.

Anyways, I am not anti-vaccine but I *do* worry about some of the ingredients used in vaccines with children (not as much myself because my body is bigger and can handle some of this better).

[marilynmom]

Here is my problem with the chicken pox vax. For the record my oldest dd (7 yrs old) is fully vax'ed including the chicken pox vax. My 4 year old is not vax'ed for chicken pox.

My worry is that since most vax'es are not life long (chicken pox vax is still up in the air since it hasn't been around long enough to know how long immunity will truly last) is the vax will wear off (yes I know about boosters but most adults don't get them) and she will be at greater risk for chicken pox as an adult which can be more dangerous.

So I really am not sure what to do about this one. Chicken pox for the vast majority of kids is not a big deal, just the like flu, etc I am not scared of my kids getting chickenpox, I am worried about the vax wearing off and them being exposed to it as an adult though.

What are your thoughts on this?

Oh, edited to add there have been many stories in the news about chicken pox outbreaks in kids who had the cp vax so that disturbs me.

[marilynmom]

Originally Posted by KuteNurse

Hello From Minnesota!

As a matter of fact, if you eat a can of tuna, you get more mercury from the tuna than from getting all vaccines combined!

Well, how much mercury is in one can of tuna compared to the typical shots say that a 2 or 4 or 6 month old would get in one day?

And isn't there is a difference between injecting mercury into your body than ingesting it? I don't know, but I would think there would be?

Here are some links I found:
http://www.pbs.org/now/science/mercuryinfish.html
EPA recommended level: 2.05 micrograms a day or 14.35 a week

6 ounces of chunk white tuna has I belive (if I am reading this right) you will have ingested 3.7 (is that right?) if you eat just that one can. Someone correct me if I am wrong in how I read it.

But no matter how you look at it, mercury in the body, no matter how it gets there (vax, fish, environment, etc), isn't healthy! It definatly doesn't need to be in *any* vaccines.

I am beginning to wonder if part of the problem is we are just being exposed to mercury at every turn anymore....fish, vaccines, environment, in the womb with what mom eats, where ever else it lurks, and children are paying the price for this overload especially. I know some of the studies that have been done on some autistic kids (though not all) show them to have very high levels on mercury in their blood, their bodies are NOT getting rid it, there might be a genetic link to the way certain childrens bodies deal with mercury? With some kids the mercury in the vaccines might be enough to send them over the edge so to speak with all the other mercury they have/are being exposed to. I think that is certainly possible....and how do we know it wont be out child this happens to?

As far as the gentic link with autism I think that is definatly true, it clearly is true. I have also read, and --here is the controversy--, that mercury poisoning looks and "acts" the same as autism, so kids who may be diagnosed with autism or actually mercury poisoned. I can't say I have researched that one much though but I think it is interesting for sure.

Just some thoughts.

[marilynmom]

Originally Posted by KuteNurse

Yes it is not so pleasant the way these vaccines are produced! But think of the lives that have been saved as a result! I am NEVER pro abortion, but God has a reason for everything and his reason for this unborn child was to prevent disease for others.

I know my main concern about using the aborted fetal tissues is not for me (I am pro-choice so this doesn't bother me actually) but I know there are a lot of pro-lifers out there who have no clue about this and they should at least be told so they can make an informed decision based on their childs health and the manufacturing of the vaccine itself. I think that is fair.

[mandana]

Originally Posted by marilynmom

God, let me tell you I try to find unbiased sources, that is not easy to do with this issue at all sometimes. Or maybe I think I am looking at a fairly unbiased source and it turns out not to be.

I know what you mean, trying to find good information on crop circles is almost impossible! Which made me think, hmmmm.....maybe since all the info on crop circles is crazy, maybe crop circles themselves are a little crazy.

I do believe people should have free choices in life and I do believe in truly informed informed consent. If giving someone who is vehemently pro-life information about vaccines containing aborted fetal tissue, I think it's incredible important to make it clear that we are talking about 2 fetus, well over 30 years old and that thousands upon thousands of vaccines have been made. For many people, this won't matter, it's inflammatory enough to just hear "aborted fetus in vaccines" but for others, I think there is a distinction.

Here's something interesting on aborted tissue in vaccines from a pro-life group that petitioned the Vatican for a statement. It is worth noting that even the Vatican would not commit to taking a "no thanks" stance on receiving the vaccines. http://www.cogforlife.org/vaticanresponse.htm

Vaccines currently produced using human cell lines that come from aborted foetuses

To date, there are two human diploid cell lines which were originally prepared from tissues of aborted foetuses ( in 1964 and 1970) and are used for the preparation of vaccines based on live attenuated virus: the first one is the WI-38 line (Winstar Institute 38), with human diploid lung fibroblasts, coming from a female foetus that was aborted because the family felt they had too many children (G. Sven et al., 1969). It was prepared and developed by Leonard Hayflick in 1964 (L. Hayflick, 1965; G. Sven et al., 1969)3 and bears the ATCC number CCL-75. WI-38 has been used for the preparation of the historical vaccine RA 27/3 against rubella (S.A. Plotkin et al, 1965)4. The second human cell line is MRC-5 (Medical Research Council 5) (human, lung, embryonic) (ATCC number CCL-171), with human lung fibroblasts coming from a 14 week male foetus aborted for "psychiatric reasons" from a 27 year old woman in the UK. MRC-5 was prepared and developed by J.P. Jacobs in 1966 (J.P. Jacobs et al, 1970)5. Other human cell lines have been developed for pharmaceutical needs, but are not involved in the vaccines actually available6.
The vaccines that are incriminated today as using human cell lines from aborted foetuses, WI-38 and MRC-5, are the following:7

A) Live vaccines against rubella8 :
- the monovalent vaccines against rubella Meruvax®!! (Merck) (U.S.), Rudivax® (Sanofi Pasteur, Fr.), and Ervevax® (RA 27/3) (GlaxoSmithKline, Belgium);
- the combined vaccine MR against rubella and measles, commercialized with the name of M-R-VAX® (Merck, US) and Rudi-Rouvax® (AVP, France);
- the combined vaccine against rubella and mumps marketed under the name of Biavax®!! (Merck, U.S.),
- the combined vaccine MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) against rubella, mumps and measles, marketed under the name of M-M-R® II (Merck, US), R.O.R.®, Trimovax® (Sanofi Pasteur, Fr.), and Priorix® (GlaxoSmithKline UK).

B) Other vaccines, also prepared using human cell lines from aborted foetuses:
- two vaccines against hepatitis A, one produced by Merck (VAQTA), the other one produced by GlaxoSmithKline (HAVRIX), both of them being prepared using MRC-5;
- one vaccine against chicken pox, Varivax®, produced by Merck using WI-38 and MRC-5;
- one vaccine against poliomyelitis, the inactivated polio virus vaccine Poliovax® (Aventis-Pasteur, Fr.) using MRC-5;
- one vaccine against rabies, Imovax®, produced by Aventis Pasteur, harvested from infected human diploid cells, MRC-5 strain;
- one vaccine against smallpox, AC AM 1000, prepared by Acambis using MRC-5, still on trial.

[LilPeanut]

My biggest issues are that a) they are so afraid of lawsuits and things, they try to deny that adverse events are associated with it b) the schedule for vaxes was not developed with the highest efficacy or safety in mind, but for the highest compliance. I understand the issues with compliance, but they risk non-compliance when they try and shove everything in together. I just do not think it is wise to overwhelm an immature immune system with so many antigens at once.

Plus, with so many of the vaxs being combined, it makes it difficult to know if your child is just reacting to one part of a shot and if so, which part. My sister has a near deadly reaction to tetanus shots. If she got a combo shot with 5 or 6 combined, they would have had to stop ALL her shots, instead of just the ones she had issues with.

[marybethm]

My two older kids had the illness (chicken pox), so for them it was a moot point. But my youngest, who is now 9, didn't. It was a dilemma and I held out in kindergarten even though it's required, but I caved in 1st grade and he got the shot. I wish I didn't, but it's not due to concerns about shot safety. It's because when he's 40 and I'm gone, who's going to make him get his booster? Also, even if you've gotten the shot, you can still come down with a mild form of the disease, so what's the point? But the main reason I had him get the shot was to avoid shingles as an adult--that disease is so painful!

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by marilynmom

Well, how much mercury is in one can of tuna compared to the typical shots say that a 2 or 4 or 6 month old would get in one day?

And isn't there is a difference between injecting mercury into your body than ingesting it? I don't know, but I would think there would be?

Here are some links I found:
http://www.pbs.org/now/science/mercuryinfish.html
EPA recommended level: 2.05 micrograms a day or 14.35 a week

6 ounces of chunk white tuna has I belive (if I am reading this right) you will have ingested 3.7 (is that right?) if you eat just that one can. Someone correct me if I am wrong in how I read it.

But no matter how you look at it, mercury in the body, no matter how it gets there (vax, fish, environment, etc), isn't healthy! It definatly doesn't need to be in *any* vaccines.

I am beginning to wonder if part of the problem is we are just being exposed to mercury at every turn anymore....fish, vaccines, environment, in the womb with what mom eats, where ever else it lurks, and children are paying the price for this overload especially. I know some of the studies that have been done on some autistic kids (though not all) show them to have very high levels on mercury in their blood, their bodies are NOT getting rid it, there might be a genetic link to the way certain childrens bodies deal with mercury? With some kids the mercury in the vaccines might be enough to send them over the edge so to speak with all the other mercury they have/are being exposed to. I think that is certainly possible....and how do we know it wont be out child this happens to?

As far as the gentic link with autism I think that is definatly true, it clearly is true. I have also read, and --here is the controversy--, that mercury poisoning looks and "acts" the same as autism, so kids who may be diagnosed with autism or actually mercury poisoned. I can't say I have researched that one much though but I think it is interesting for sure.

Just some thoughts.

If you're interested, there's a thread about autism and vaccines over on the developmental disabilities nursing board.

http://allnurses.com/forums/f96/auti...up-109145.html

[marilynmom]

Originally Posted by marybethm

But the main reason I had him get the shot was to avoid shingles as an adult--that disease is so painful!

I am not sure if the vaccines really prevents shingles later on or not, I've read various opinions about that (I hope it does though). Here is an article I thought was interesting:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4098232&EDATE=
"It has long
been known that adults receive natural boosting from contact with children
infected with chicken pox that helps prevent the reactivation of shingles."

I know Merck has been working on a shingles vaccine. I think it is in trials right now. You should be able to type in shingles vaccine and merck and come up with some links.