[fergus51]

Originally Posted by marilynmom

Yes, but most parents are not making *informed* decisions.

That's your opinion. When I did my public health rotation, the risks/benefits were discussed and parents decided. That seems pretty informed to me. Parents don't have to get a PhD in vaccines before making a decision. You may not like that, but it's just the way it is. Some parents will always just trust their doctor's advice, and if they have a trustworthy doctor then that may be fine for them. Other parents will just trust what they read on a bulletin board or what they heard from a friend and choose based on that. I don't think that's any better, but it isn't any worse either.

[onehusbandsevenkids]

Originally Posted by fergus51

That's your opinion. When I did my public health rotation, the risks/benefits were discussed and parents decided. That seems pretty informed to me. Parents don't have to get a PhD in vaccines before making a decision. You may not like that, but it's just the way it is. Some parents will always just trust their doctor's advice, and if they have a trustworthy doctor then that may be fine for them. Other parents will just trust what they read on a bulletin board or what they heard from a friend and choose based on that. I don't think that's any better, but it isn't any worse either.

Nope, FULL benefits and risks are not being understood. Parents mostly get the "party line" here's the sheet of risks and benefits, blah, blah, blah.
I am around many, many expecting & new parents, and, lots of them high income, highly educated....most think they know everything they need to know and later find out they didnt know everything there is to know to make a truely informed decision.
I have never known any medical personnel to sit take the time to sit down with a parent and explain it all - pros vs cons 100%. Public health clinics all the way to very wealthy Peds.
How many parents even know what the actual ingredients are in vaccines?
What exactly are these ingredients that we are bombarding our infants and young children with? Toxic stuff, scarey stuff. If a parent is fine with that, then all is well - but parents are in the dark alot of/most of the time!
BTW, I never fully trust any doc or med person, likewise I never fully trust and bulletin board or second hand info. I think a peson who does either is a fool. There is ALOT of bias out there (as we obviously see here) and there is just so much info to wade through. Got to be fully informed parents and consumers of health care!

I think thats what a huge part of the argument is- parents just are not fully informed or educated on this subject as much as they need to be.
I know after I learned things that should have been disclosed and should have been common knowledge I definately felt betrayed and untrustworthy of the medical field.

Bowing out of this conversation now...takes up too much time and energy. Those who vax, I pray you never end up with a damaged child, likewise to those who don't.

[SmilingBluEyes]

wish it were around when my son was 6 mo. He was so very sick w/this, and so dehydrated, I was out of my mind w/worry. i would have gladly prevented this in him, if i could have....

[ayndim]

Originally Posted by ChayaN

Thanks for clarifying that Marilyn Mom. I'm in line with you on this one. My problem is not with vaxxes but with the fact that they're mandatory. In every other health issue there's informed consent and we get to assess the risk/benefits for ourselves and make a decision. Why should vax be any different? The argument for mandatory vax is that everyone needs to be vaxed to have herd immunity. As far as I know, a person cannot ethically be compelled to do something that presents risk to himself in order to protect someone else. It has to be voluntary.

Actually, it isn't mandatory. That is a myth. Parents can sign waivers for school, although unvaccinated children will not be allowed to attend during a breakout in which they are not vaccinated against. I did alot of research when my first was born about the pros/cons of vaccinating and talked to my doctor about it. He told me I could not be forced to vaccinate my children in order to have them attend school. The only exception is daycare, as that is not mandatory.

I wasn't worried so much about the autism link but it boggles my mind how we can shoot tiny babies full of so much stuff. Their immune systems are still developing, as are many other systems. Top it off with the fact that they just went through such a traumatic event. From nice warm cocoon to big, cold world. I think we need to let them adjust to such a big change for at least 6 months.

[mercyteapot]

I hope this one is safer than the one that got pulled off the market a few years ago.

[mercyteapot]

I'm not sure that most 'lay' parents have any idea that the government's primary concern as relates to vaccination has nothing to do with the health of individual children, and everything to do with public health. That would be fine if the two weren't exclusive from time to time, as when a vaccine ends up injuring a child. My son received all his vaccinations, but even having a healthcare background and reading what was meant to pass as all the information necessary to make an informed decision, I wish I had known then what I know now.

[lsyorke]

The decision to vaccinate or not to vaccinate is up to the parent. That said, I agree that most have NO idea of the risks and benefits. I understand that the rotovirus can be deadly for some children in compromised health. But the pattern with immunizations is once they're out there, they become the norm, and even mandatory.

Just because the FDA approves something does NOT mean that it's safe. The FDA makes it's decisions based on the information that is sent to them.... complete or incomplete. I believed that the FDA research was extensive and all encompassing.. well, the past few years of extensive involvement with the FDA have enlightened me.

This may be a great vaccine. I, personally would not give a family member a vaccine unless it had been on the market and in widespread use for at least 2 years, and then only if my child was in a high risk group, with a thimerosol free vaccine.

[marilynmom]

Originally Posted by fergus51

That's your opinion. When I did my public health rotation, the risks/benefits were discussed and parents decided. That seems pretty informed to me. Parents don't have to get a PhD in vaccines before making a decision. You may not like that, but it's just the way it is. Some parents will always just trust their doctor's advice, and if they have a trustworthy doctor then that may be fine for them. Other parents will just trust what they read on a bulletin board or what they heard from a friend and choose based on that. I don't think that's any better, but it isn't any worse either.

Sorry but I'm not buying that This is not at all directed toward you so please don't take it that way, but just in general with the health care industry/medical/nursing education. I have never in my LIFE seen a public health or nurse or Dr explain the full risks and benefits of a vaccine to anyone, ever. Are they telling them what is in the vaccine that they will be injecting into the childs bloodstream and they really don't know the long term effects because there has not been a study done (aluminum, mercury, other toxins--that is a FACT)? No they do not because most Dr's, RN's, etc don't even pay attention and none of us are taught about any of this in school that is for sure.

So my rant is not against the individuals who are pro-vax or anything like that actually, but about the way we as health care professionals are not taught about vaccines. We simply are not educated formally about the true risks, the history of vaccines (like those links to the charts I posted showing how ineffective certain vaccines are), etc.

Anyways, this is a great discussion I think! I think it's good to talk about things like this with each other, how else do we learn from each other, talk about actualy experiences with vaccines (both good and bad), challenge opinions and thoughts? We need to talk about this stuff as health care workers. We all have opinions but what are our opinions really based on (fact or just what we have been taught or told?)?

But having said that I am going to back out of this discussion because I have to study for a test and write a couple papers and try to figure out what is wrong with my stupid computer and my car keeps acting weird! LOL

[VeryPlainJane]

Originally Posted by SmilingBluEyes

wish it were around when my son was 6 mo. He was so very sick w/this, and so dehydrated, I was out of my mind w/worry. i would have gladly prevented this in him, if i could have....

We had a bad outbreak of this last year, a lot of sick children...My daughter's preschool and one other was the only ones that didn't have it.

[SmilingBluEyes]

lets' just say, the rotavirus had my son very sick for weeks. I would love to have prevented the misery he suffered at such a young age...his butt was literally bleeding from the constant watery diarrhea ------i distinctly remember him pooping out whatever we fed him, almost immediately. it was pure hell.