[marilynmom]

I think this might be a good idea in underdeveloped countries but not here in the US for every child. Even though I think money would be better spent in cleaning up the water supply, nutrition, hand washing, infection control practices, good medical/nursing care, preventative medicine, etc These countries wouldn't have these diseaes if they had the above!

I encourage ALL health care providers to PLEASE take the time to educate yourself about vaccines....what are the ingredients, what exactly is the disease your being vax'ed for, what are the risks of the vax, if you did get the disease would it kill you or would you develop lifelong immunity to pass along to your child while they are in the most vunerable time of infancy while breastfeeding them, etc

You guys ROCK! I truly thought I might one of the very few in nursing school that questions vaccines! Am I totally anit-vax? No. I am currently educating myself about the HepB vax and the risks, benefits, for myself. As a healthy adult I have a 90% chance of totally recovery if I do contract HepB for instance. Would I get the HepB vax for my 4 and 7 year old? Well since they are currently sexually inactive, dont share needles, etc they are not at risk, so no. Would I get the rotovirus vax for my kids, no they are/were totally breastfed and rotovirus is *extremely* rare in breastfed babies.....but for children in underdeveloped countries with no clean IVs, water supply in contaminated for drinking, cooking and formula mixing, etc I think the risk of dying from rotovirus far outweighs the risk of the vaccine in those countries at this time, though I dont think it will be the answer to the problem either. But I guess we will have to see if the vaccines truly turns out to be effective or not.

And yes there IS still mercury in vaccines (it was only suggested that it be removed btw)--people still believe it was all taken out?! Some vaccines still have the full amount, others have less/trace, some never had any to begin with but it is still in there for sure. There are plently of charts online that show the exact amount of mercury is in what vaccine your giving your children and yourself. But of course mercury isn't the only problem.

We wont let our children play with a broken mercury thermometer, wont let them put a finger in antifreeze (which is in vax's as well), wouldn't let our children to even put a TINY drop in their mouths, we know that aluminum is associated with degeneratie diseases and is also in vaccines, etc but we will inject all that and MORE into our childs bloodstream where no studies have ever been done? There is aborted fetal tissues used in some vaccines, antibiotics (streptomycin, neomycin, and polymyxin B), other species DNA (monkey, etc), formaldehyde, hydrochloric acid, etc you can see all those on the manufactures websites or the package inserts.

Here is an interesting chart on vaccines. Also why did diseases such as scarlet fever, etc go away without vaccines? Could sanitation, clean water, food, clean places to live, universal precautions, etc have anything to do with the reason these diseases went away or were *drastically* declining BEFORE vaccines? Is that why these diseases are still rampant and killing thousands in underdeveloped countries where there is no clean water, malnutrition, unsafe and unclean living conditions, no preventive medicine, etc (might need to scroll down about half the page on the first link to see the graphs):
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/daily...x&Disease7.htm
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/decline1.html

Ok, I'll stop ranting! LOL

[ChayaN]

Originally Posted by marilynmom

There is aborted fetal tissues used in some vaccines,

I agree with most of what you posted but I'm very skeptical about this part. Isn't that illegal at the moment? That's one thing that I don't like about the anti-vaxx literature. They'd be much more successful at presenting their cause if they stayed away from the hysterical tone and anything that can't be backed up with evidence. There are enough good reasons to rethink mandatory vaccinations without resorting to yellow journalism.

[marilynmom]

[quote=ChayaN]I agree with most of what you posted but I'm very skeptical about this part. Isn't that illegal at the moment? QUOTE]

No it is not. It is listed on the package insert as human diploid cell culture (which is not the same as the HeLa line from the women who died of cancer).

The new chicken pox vaccine made by Merck Frosst Pharmaceuticals is grown on the MRC-5 cell line derived from the normal lung tissue of a 14-week-old male fetus aborted "for psychiatric reasons." So are the polio and hepatitis A vaccines. The rubella virus in the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) three-in-one shot is grown on the WI-38 cell line-developed in 1961 from an aborted three-month-old female fetus.

Here is a link for package inserts and ingredients:
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/pack.html

The WI-38, MRC-5 and other stem cell lines do not require additional abortions to sustain the cell lines, nor to produce additional batches of vaccine. Fetal cells themselves are not ingredients of the vaccines (sorry, I should have been more clear in my post above about this, my bad), they are cultured on them and for some people that is not cool. I myself am pro-choice but for some who are pro-life this is an issue (and some, if not a majority, may not be aware of this). So for me personally, I dont so much have an issue of this (like I do with mercury, aluminum, etc), but I think everyone should be informed and make those decisions for themselves.

Here is something about the rubella vax and catholics in particular on the CDC website about choosing the vax and the abortied fetal cells used in the vaccine, since many Catholics are pro-choice and oviously might have conflicts with using a vaccine cultured on aborted fetal cells:
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/conce...n/cathnews.htm


Following is the information on each vaccine, its clinical name and the pharmaceutical company producing them.

CHICKENPOX: VARIVAX/VARICELLA
Uses both MRC-5 and WI-38 human cell lines and is produced by Merck & Co.

HEPATITIS-A: “HAVRIX”, “VAQTA”
Uses MRC-5 human cell lines and is produced by SmithKline Beecham and Merck & Co.

HEPATITIS A-B: “TWINRIX”
New combo vaccine uses MRC-5 human cell lines and is produced by SmithKline Beecham (NOTE: Hepatitis-B alone is NOT “tainted.”)

RUBELLA: MERUVAX, MMR
Uses WI-38 human cell lines and is produced by Merck & Co. NOTE: MMR PROVIDES SIMULTANEOUS VACCINATION FOR MEASLES-MUMPS-RUBELLA. ANY VACCINE WHICH COMBINES WITH RUBELLA, IE, RUBELLA-MUMPS, (BIAVAX) RUBELLA-MEASLES (MR-VAX) USES THE SAME ABORTED FETAL CELLS. MERUVAX IMMUNIZES FOR RUBELLA ONLY.

OTHER “TAINTED” VACCINES
There are some vaccines that have been manufactured from these same aborted fetal cell lines, (MRC-5 and WI-38), however there are also alternative sources used in their production that do not come from abortion. Following is the information on each vaccine, its clinical name, the alternative “untainted” source and the pharmaceuticals producing them.

· MUMPS
· POLIO
· RABIES

Following is the information on each vaccine, its clinical name, the alternative “untainted” source and the pharmaceuticals producing them.

MUMPS

MUMPSVAX (UNTAINTED) Merck & Co.: Uses the cell cultures of a chicken embryo. 1-800 422-9675

MEASLES

ATTENUVAX (UNTAINTED) Merck & Co: Uses the cell cultures of a chicken embryo. 1-800 422-9675

POLIO

POLIOVAX (TAINTED) Aventis-Pasteur: Uses MRC-5 human cell line.

IPOL (UNTAINTED) Aventis-Pasteur/Connaught: Uses monkey kidney cells. 1-800-822-2463

ORIMUNE (Oral Dosage - Untainted) Aventis-Pasteur/Connaught: Uses monkey kidney cells. 1-800-822-2463

RABIES

IMOVAX (TAINTED) Aventis-Pasteur/Connaught: Uses MRC-5 human cell line.

RabAvert (UNTAINTED) Chiron Inc.: Uses chick embryo. 1-800 244-7668 (Pacific Time)

Your doctor can order the untainted versions by calling the 800 numbers listed above. They are all available in single dosage.

[marilynmom]

I guess my main concern with vaccines is that people blindly use them and are not informed and educated about what is in them, the risks, etc I just wanted to make that clear. I would not personally associate myself with the anti-vax camp and of course I dont align up with the pro-vax camp either, I find myself in the middle.


Like for me, I am debating whether or not to get the HepB vaccine series. For most healthy adults (90% I think from the CDC website) recover completely and have lifelong immunity frm HepB--5% become lifelong carriers. Other countries have stopped using HepB because they do believe (unlike US) that there is or might be a link btwn HepB vax and autoimmune disorders (though rare am I willing to take that risk, especially when autoimmune disorders run in my family? I might be more suseptable).

So I have educated myself about the risks vs benefits of thos vaccine. I am not anti-vax, but people simply do not educate themselves about any of it! They give all newborns HepB (and sorry but unless they are born to HepB+ mothers, the newborn is a drug user or having unprotected sex what is the point? Especially when many studies show the vaccine only lasts for 7 years or so is it really protecting teenagers from contracting HepB? Would it be better to postpone this vax until they are teenagers or another high risk group?). I'm still educating myself on this one

[mandana]

Originally Posted by marilynmom

I guess my main concern with vaccines is that people blindly use them and are not informed and educated about what is in them, the risks, etc I just wanted to make that clear. I would not personally associate myself with the anti-vax camp and of course I dont align up with the pro-vax camp either, I find myself in the middle.


Like for me, I am debating whether or not to get the HepB vaccine series. For most healthy adults (90% I think from the CDC website) recover completely and have lifelong immunity frm HepB--5% become lifelong carriers. Other countries have stopped using HepB because they do believe (unlike US) that there is or might be a link btwn HepB vax and autoimmune disorders (though rare am I willing to take that risk, especially when autoimmune disorders run in my family? I might be more suseptable).

So I have educated myself about the risks vs benefits of thos vaccine. I am not anti-vax, but people simply do not educate themselves about any of it! They give all newborns HepB (and sorry but unless they are born to HepB+ mothers, the newborn is a drug user or having unprotected sex what is the point? Especially when many studies show the vaccine only lasts for 7 years or so is it really protecting teenagers from contracting HepB? Would it be better to postpone this vax until they are teenagers or another high risk group?). I'm still educating myself on this one

It really isn't fair (or accurate) to assume that those of us that are pro-vaccine aren't aware of the opposing point of view or the ingredients in vaccines. I promised not to debate, and I dont' intend to, but please don't think that we're all just accepting because "they" say we need them.

Have you ever met anyone that had Hep B and recovered?! The convalescence is not pleasant.

And as for rota not being a problem in the US, it certainly is in my area - during my ped rotation, roughly 40% of the children in the hospital were there because of rota. And I assure you, plenty of them were breastfed exclusively.

Amanda

[ChayaN]

Thanks for clarifying that Marilyn Mom. I'm in line with you on this one. My problem is not with vaxxes but with the fact that they're mandatory. In every other health issue there's informed consent and we get to assess the risk/benefits for ourselves and make a decision. Why should vax be any different? The argument for mandatory vax is that everyone needs to be vaxed to have herd immunity. As far as I know, a person cannot ethically be compelled to do something that presents risk to himself in order to protect someone else. It has to be voluntary.

[onehusbandsevenkids]

Originally Posted by mandana

It really isn't fair (or accurate) to assume that those of us that are pro-vaccine aren't aware of the opposing point of view or the ingredients in vaccines. I promised not to debate, and I dont' intend to, but please don't think that we're all just accepting because "they" say we need them.
Amanda

Okay, there is a population that do vax and aren't just accepting because they say we need them BUT what do you honestly think that percentage to be?
I would bet that the average mainstream USA mom who has had scare & guilt tactics thrown her way has not been 100% fully informed.
Heck, I was a very, very well informed & well read mother starting out, more so than anyone else I knew and I didn't know then what I know now - I only found out what I know now on my own, my own research - never, ever did a doc or nurse fully inform me of all of the issues surrounding vaccines.
I believe that to be equal to a crime. I would have done things differently.
How many mothers would have done things differently IF they had known these things that are not fully disclosed? I personally know alot of them, and most of them are shocked and feel "taken" when they learn these things. I'm a doula and parent educator and speak with alot of parents, most dont know things like this and it does matter to a good number of them.
(And thats not even addressing the lower income, less educated populations who seem to not have any choices at the local health dept.)
My nursing instructors don't even fully know these things!

[s and t]

I am just curious, but some (not all) of you have mentioned that you do not believe that the vaccines are safe for your children because of the mercury, but feel that it is a good idea for children of third world countries to receive them. I may have missed something here, and I will go back and reread the posts. But if this is the case, why is no one advocating for the children of these countries? If you feel it is unsafe for your children, why are they not unsafe for all children?

[jeepgirl]

Originally Posted by Gompers

If you don't want your kids to have it, fine. But this might be a lifesaver for children in undeveloped countries.

AND for children in the US. There are kids out there who have become so sick and dehydrated from rotavirus that they HAVE died. Besides, the less I have to deal with roto-poop, the better!!!

[jeepgirl]

Originally Posted by wincha

How many vaccines do children need? How many of them are actually needed? Plus there is the issue of vaccines and autism. My ped doesn't agree with the hep b vaccine so we wait until our children are required to have it for school. He doesn't also agree with the chicken pox vaccine. I am hoping my kids will get it on their own like their older siblings did.

wincha...
I have to disagree with you, as I almost DIED from the chicken pox when I was 7 years old. While I don't remember much, I can remember being in PAIN from my chickenpox associated encephalitis. Needless to say, my four year old has had her immunizations.