[Tweety]

Originally Posted by michaelarose

You're the one that gave references to age and beauty, since that seems to be an issue with you. I never specified this phenomenon as being age specific, those were points you brought up, i can't help it if I used some of your argument to suggest my point.

I still think you are one of the nurses that dishes out a lot of this treatment. Again, as I said before, there are a variety of reasons why nurses treat each other cruelly. But I can see that you just want to be right and that's all that matters to you.

It's very hard to judge a person by their posts on an internet and let's try not to do that. Let's try to stick to the topic of "Do nurses their young" without getting personal and making accusations about one another. I'm quoting your post, but my post is a reminder to us all to express our opinions, agree to disagree, and not personalize it too much, and not bait one another (whether concsiously or unconsciously. Thanks.

[BortaZinTx]

People are catty. There are mean, gripey old nurses, and arrogant, ignorant new nurses. Anyone who has worked within a large group could tell you this.

Denying that "nurses eat their young" is naive, as is denying that some young deserve to be eaten.

It's knowing one from the other that is important.

[aloevera]

Whether we would admit to it or not, we have all been drawn in to some form of "cattiness" at some point in our lives. Some of us would rather stay away from it, I know, but there has been an instance when I think we all could relate. Yes, I will admit to that, for sure.

[NursStudent1980]

Originally Posted by Ruby Vee

This thread doesn't exist because "Nurses eat their young." This thread exists, and has so many responses because there are lots of people out there who find the idea that "nurses eat their young" as a comforting explanation for the problems they're having in their new jobs and their new careers. This thread solves two very basic problems for lots of folks out there:

First, since "nurses eat their young," the problems I'm having with my preceptor and all the other people at work can't possibly be MY fault. I don't have to look at my own behavior and try to analyze what I've brought to the interactions. I can just explain it away by saying "Look -- it's just those cranky old nurses chewing' on their young. Everybody says so."

And saying it's because "that's what happens when a bunch of women get together -- that's what women do" also diminishes one's own responsibility for the problems one is having. The thing is, hazing exists in every occupation, including the tradionally male dominated ones. Ever see the movie "North Country"? Take a look at the character of hazing that existed in THAT male dominated occupation -- some of those "jokes" were potentially (or actually) lethal! The difference between hazing in a group of women and hazing in a group of men is that male hazing tends to be more physical and potentially physically harmful and that men seem to accept it as a rite of passage and move on.

Elsewhere on this board, we've seen threads that indicate some newbie believes all her problems with her co-workers have root in the "fact" that she's just so much more attractive than everyone around her. If you refuse to accept that at face value and read between the lines of her posts, you come to see that this woman regards her co-workers as "old dogs" or "old fossils who should stand aside and make way for ME to rock the ER (or ICU or OR or labor suites)." True, I'm an "old fossil" by some standards, but I really believe the troubles these newbies are having at work as more to do with her feelings about her co-workers being visible than about any extraordinary beauty she may or may not have.

The people who blame their problems on nurses eating their young "because it's a female dominated profession and females are catty" really don't like women all that much. It's particularly sad when you note that so many of those people ARE women!

I've been around a long time -- long enough to see many nurses go from novice to expert, and to see many extraordinarily cute young things marry, have children and become middle-aged, over-weight and tired. One thing I have noticed -- and it seems to hold true with few exceptions -- is that those newbies who scream that "Nurses eat their young" and "those mean old nurses are always picking on me for NO REASON" inevitably turn into the very same "nasty old hags" that this year's crop of newbies is screaming about eating them.

Just something to think about.

Ruby,
I must say that I agree with the vast majority of your post, HOWEVER, the second paragraph, I have a problem with. I can honestly say that 99% of the hospital staff I have encountered have been EXCELLENT. Unfortunately though, the 1% that are bad, are really really bad! I have been verbally abused and called down in front of patients and family members (already discussed in other posts). This had nothing to do with my extraordinary beauty OR personal deficits... it happened because I am a student and was therefore easy to place the blame on. The nurse in question was not necessarily "old" but cranky begins to describe her! I don't like the fact that you now have placed the blame squarely on new grads shoulders instead of recognizing the fact that, at times, new grads have over-inflated egos that get them into trouble, and at other times, experienced nurses are unhappy in their own lives and take it out on the easiest target. It goes both ways.

[michaelarose]

Originally Posted by Tweety

It's very hard to judge a person by their posts on an internet and let's try not to do that. Let's try to stick to the topic of "Do nurses their young" without getting personal and making accusations about one another. I'm quoting your post, but my post is a reminder to us all to express our opinions, agree to disagree, and not personalize it too much, and not bait one another (whether concsiously or unconsciously. Thanks.

I agree with this completely, and at the same time, I also think is very hard to be crapped on because someone finally had it with reading others experience with this problem. I never made accusations about age, or anything else. I made a general statement, one that many people didn't like, but none the less i made it. Suddenly it snow balled into new nurses calling people battle axes, and people are tired at work and the implication that when this does happen, vicious behavior is ok and even excused.

I also didn't care to read that nurses that bring their personal problems to work were excused from this behavior too. As nurses we're all tired, but that is never a reason to mistreat another nurse, just like you wouldn't take you work problems home and mistreat your spouse or children.

When I read posts like this, what am I supposed to think? More so than ever that my original statement is correct. Those can disagree or agree, but these are not good excuses at all for treating people badly. I don't care how you want to disguise it. "I had a bad day." "My husband ****** me off" "i just don't like that nurse"... so what! None of these are good reasons to treat someone harshly, especially those that look to experienced nurses to help them out.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by michaelarose

I agree with this completely, and at the same time, I also think is very hard to be crapped on because someone finally had it with reading others experience with this problem. I never made accusations about age, or anything else. I made a general statement, one that many people didn't like, but none the less i made it. Suddenly it snow balled into new nurses calling people battle axes, and people are tired at work and the implication that when this does happen, vicious behavior is ok and even excused.

I also didn't care to read that nurses that bring their personal problems to work were excused from this behavior too. As nurses we're all tired, but that is never a reason to mistreat another nurse, just like you wouldn't take you work problems home and mistreat your spouse or children.

When I read posts like this, what am I supposed to think? More so than ever that my original statement is correct. Those can disagree or agree, but these are not good excuses at all for treating people badly. I don't care how you want to disguise it. "I had a bad day." "My husband ****** me off" "i just don't like that nurse"... so what! None of these are good reasons to treat someone harshly, especially those that look to experienced nurses to help them out.

All I'm asking is that people express themselves much as you have in this post. You spoke your mind. You didn't flame me by saying "well Tweety you're obviously one of those battleaxed nurses that eat their young, and.............."

[michaelarose]

Originally Posted by Tweety

All I'm asking is that people express themselves much as you have in this post. You spoke your mind. You didn't flame me by saying "well Tweety you're obviously one of those battleaxed nurses that eat their young, and.............."

I agree, you're absolutely right. I just ask that when I speak my mind, that people don't put words in my mouth. That's pretty inflammatory as well.

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by michaelarose

I agree, you're absolutely right. I just ask that when I speak my mind, that people don't put words in my mouth. That's pretty inflammatory as well.

Agree. Unfortunately the TOS doesn't allow us to return flame for flame. We have to take a breathe and say "Please don't put words in my mouth, you might have misunderstood, let me clarify why I disagree with what you're saying....blah blah blah....."

Don't mean to patronize, and I'm speaking in general terms, not just about you. Thanks for listening and thanks for your input.

[softstorms]

I need help here! We have a new RN. Very young in age as well as degree. She worked at a hospital and found it too much for her. For some reason she was told to go to a nursing home and get some experience. She came to our facility (rehab/acute care), and because of her title (R.N.) was loaded up with responsibility. She is so over-loaded. I am not sure if she can handle this. I work second shift as an LPN charge nurse. I see her more confused and staying over more and more. How can I help her?

[nanacarol]

The term "eating our young" allows many to minimize what happens in the health care arena to new health care providers. No, we don't sit at table and use a knife and fork to devour others but the real truthfor those of us mature enough not to make excuses for our failure to be helpful and therapeutic with new comers is that we do (many of us) sit by and allow the novice to our environments to falter and in many instances we are gleeful. We are harsh in our responses when questions are asked or a helpful hand is sought. We say we are encouraging growth, that the newbie is expecting others to do their work...please.....namy nurses just are plain mean spirited and get a rise out of the struggle of others. In my opinion, it is also a cop out to project what happens within our profession as being the status quo as it happens in other professions. The remedy is simply, to help others when you can, to give a word of encouragement when you can, to offer a hand if you aren't busy and always do no harm. nanacarol