[Katnip]

Actually, the whole statement confused me. I have no idea what you mean as it pertains to this discussion.

As far as family revoking DNRs and Living Wills, I've seen it happen way too often. People need to be educated better about what it all means and that it doesn't mean we aren't going to treat their loved one if necessary. Unfortunately at the end of a loved one's life is not the best time to do the educating.

[caroladybelle]

Originally Posted by Patient_Care_Asst

I think we all have a right to openly express our opinion on the current topic of DNR policies. Using political humor as a mode of comparison to get a particular point across is not an unreasonable assumption in my view.

Sorry if this should offend you or anyone else for that matter.

Please explain the humor...I didn't comprehend it...and I am usually quite good with that? I also don't see how the reference had to do with DNR policies.

[CHATSDALE]

the problem frequently is that the NOK, RP POA may be diiffent with one person in one position sometimes the doc and the hospital don't know whose word is legal
if the patient is unable to make a decision for themselves siblings can be angry and refuse to listen to each other
if these are step siblings it throw gas into the fire
if a doc is going to err he really doesn't have much choice except to err on the side of doing full code
and the procedure known as a slow code has no legal standing at all

[DaFreak71]

Originally Posted by lsyorke

Which absolutely defeats the whole purpose of a living will. So why are we dancing through hoops to provide information to patients on the living will if a doctor or family member can totally disregard it's presence???
This is a BIG point of contention with me. I fought to have my father made a DNR, I fought to change his status to comfort care(I was medical power of attorney). His doctor would have treated him on the way to the funeral home if I let him. It was horrendous! I KNEW my fathers wishes and was going to carry them out. I finally had a showdown with the doc and told him if he wasn't "comfortable" with dealing with end of life issues, then he could transfer my fathers care to another doctor. My Dad died peacefully 12 hours later, NO tubes, no code and with dignity. But it wasn't without ALOT of angst for the whole family.

Wow, that is sad! I'm glad that your dad eventually had his wishes respected, but sorry that you had to go through the angst to enforce them. I honestly don't understand why hospitals go through the bother of asking patients if they'd like to have someone talk to them about a living will if it is so susceptible to being overturned by a family member who thinks mom will suddenly pop out of her persistent vegetative state after five years.

My husband and I made a pact, that if either one of us comes down with something terrible (Alzheimer's, incurable cancer, CVA that leaves us drooling and useless, etc) we will divert enough morphine to end the others suffering. Consequences be damned. But I digress...

[woody62]

If a patient has a properly notarized Living Will plus a duly appointed health care proxy, woe be it for any physician to disregarding a patient's wishes. Anyone can sue. It doesn't mean they will be successful. And if there is an appointed health care poxy and tells the physician to make the patient a DNR, as long as it is also accompanied by the Living Will stating the patient's wish, the physician can't change the desire. I have had a detailed living will since the 80's when it really wasn't viewed as a legal wish. I have had a health care poxy since the 90's. And my PCP knows my wishes, has agreed to them, has a copy of my Living Will and health care poxy. Woe be it to him to ignore my directions. And he knows it.

Woody

[jlsRN]

I think the humor might have been a lame attempt to compare this flipflopping to John Kerry's political flipflopping. The joke was, however, a flop without a any flip. Just like George Bush.

[jlsRN]

Originally Posted by jlsRN

I think the humor might have been a lame attempt to compare this flipflopping to John Kerry's political flipflopping. The joke was, however, a flop without a any flip. Just like George Bush.

See, two can play at this game...

[nursejane236]

Had a 22 year old end stage dialysis patient that was waiting for transplant and was a DNR living at our facility. Patient was competent and signed her own DNR. Mother came to visit from Germany and patient collapsed. Mother who was POA screamed to begin CPR which of course was done. EMT's arrived saw the DNR and stopped the code despite the mother's POA. EMT's acted as if we did something wrong and while in the hearts of many it too felt that way, the mother as listed POA was calling the shots.

[cmo421]

Originally Posted by jlsRN

I think the humor might have been a lame attempt to compare this flipflopping to John Kerry's political flipflopping. The joke was, however, a flop without a any flip. Just like George Bush.

Actually I think it was the op just venting and got carried away, as most of us have and do when we r passionate about something. I think we should all play nice .

[LSWgirl]

In Maryland, the EMS workers could have called the police and the facility can be cited for coding a person with a DNR order. I know of a facility that was closed because of this. It's considered assault and battery.

The doctor will always be legally right if they follow a living will. In fact, in our facility, we have to follow the living will and POA no matter what. I once had to meet with my administrator, the DON, and a family member/POA to pull a g-tube on demented patient because his living will said no artificial nutrition and hydration, the son had it placed in the hospital, and he came back to our LTC facility with it.

Maryland is tougher than a lot of states, and the ramifications for not following a living will are huge. The doctor is safer to err on the side of the living will.

In the OP though, it didn't say there was a living will. In that situation, the family can do whatever they want. *Sigh* It's heartbreaking when they do that, though.