[ingelein]

Originally Posted by methylene

What exactly are you implying? I know the statement is a metaphor, but what better way to invalidate a smear than with literal evidence to the contrary?

Oi vey, I thought I had cellaphane skin.I mean just this, there are situations in life in which there have been reports about people who have not believed in the existance of a greater being or the hereafter and have changed their mind at the moment of impending death.They may be wrong, they may be right, its just an observance.

I guess I am implying that there comes a time in life that we realize we just may be wrong, maybe Im wrong now, maybe your premise is correct,who knows?

[earle58]

Originally Posted by methylene

Always?
Everyone?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...18/ai_16139352
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/denn...t06_index.html
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf095/sf095m99.htm

That was just a two minute google search- I had no vested fascination with this topic as it seems fairly cut and dry for me.

yes, everyone i've encountered, it has been a life changing experience.
everyone.

in your first link, it still changed her life.

"But I did find it moving and powerful, and I have recognized that the only thing that is important in life is what we do here and now."

the other links merely tried to explain the rationales of the tunnel and lights.

even if 98% of nde's are life-altering, not too shabby, eh?

leslie

[hypocaffeinemia]

Originally Posted by ingelein

Oi vey, I thought I had cellaphane skin.I mean just this, there are situations in life in which there have been reports about people who have in life not believed in the existance of a greater being or the hereafter and have changed their mind at the moment of impending death.They may be wrong, they may be right, its just an observance, relax, it is NOT meant to say that their original belief was flawed .Sheesh.

I guess I am implying that there comes a time in life that we realize we just may be wrong, maybe Im wrong now, maybe your premise is correct,who knows?

Sorry I seem touchy, but reverse the claims and gauge how you'd feel. Also, common sayings that seem totally inoffensive only seem inoffensive because you rarely come across members of the target minority it applies to, like claiming you've been gypped out of money-- How often does the person you're talking to claim to be a gypsy while taking grave offense at your comment?


A good portion of the deathbed recant stories are fictitious and are spread as mere apologia in order to devalue and belittle non-believers. See, for example, Darwin's deathbed story.

There are, indeed, cases of non-believers having spectacular conversions at near death. Coincidentally, many go on to write apologia regarding how bitter they were as a non-believer and how they've found God and sell millions. Not having read any such books (due to disinterest), I can't help but to remain skeptical of both claim and motive, but que sera sera, right?

[hypocaffeinemia]

Originally Posted by earle58

yes, everyone i've encountered, it has been a life changing experience.
everyone.

in your first link, it still changed her life.

"But I did find it moving and powerful, and I have recognized that the only thing that is important in life is what we do here and now."

the other links merely tried to explain the rationales of the tunnel and lights.

even if 98% of nde's are life-altering, not too shabby, eh?

leslie

I didn't mean to say they aren't life-altering. I could only imagine they have to be. What I was saying was that not everybody attributes their experiences to supernatural origins.

[ingelein]

Everyone has a right to their belief system and we all need to be more sensitive to the possibility of negating anyones personal experience or belief system, I try not to do this, but alas I am still human,that is until I enter that tunnel, and hope and pray to come out at the other end in something other than the OR.

[BlueRidgeHomeRN]

[quote=methylene;2829344]Sorry I seem touchy, but reverse the claims and gauge how you'd feel.

Not a rhetorical exercise, as people of strong faith are denigrated routinely in the media as silly and ignorant folks cashing in on the "pie in the sky bye-and-bye" opiate of the masses. So, I know how I feel in this type of situation. In this paradigm, smart , educated people outgrow this childish fantasy. We're frankly used to it, and just bless these folks and send them out to the universe with love and sometimes sadness.

I am unqualified to speak to anyone else's experiences or faith. Many self-professed religious folks scare me with their lack of charity and total certainty that they alone speak for our Creator.

For me, rigorous investigation, dialogue, education,and experiences have led me to the clear presense of a loving Creator as evidenced by his creation, and that this is but one one of many planes of existance. I don't expect you to substitute your judgement for mine, but am unclear as to how my faith harms you or impinges on the quality of YOUR life. Your views don't upset me, and as Inglein stated, we may be wrong. It's a leap I'm willing to take. Bluntly, if you are correct, I have "wasted" my life attempting to be kind and of service to others, and will die happily. How is this a problem for you?

What I read into death bed recollections and NDE's are that negative experiences are rare but real, and I have witnessed the former, but not experienced the latter.

Birth and death are so common, we overlook the awesomeness. With apologies for my fatigue and fog, and blanking out on the author--Either everything is a miracle, or nothing is.

[Stanley-RN2B]

Originally Posted by earle58

i too, have seen these type deaths.
what's interesting, is these pts i'm thinking of, didn't have any beliefs about afterlife.
they believed in nothingness, total nothingness.
kaput.
it's over.

it's obvious to me they did see something...whether it was a religious figure, an angel or something totally unfamiliar to them...
and it scared the begeezuz out of them, thinking all this time that nothing was going to happen.
it's a horrifying event to witness and more, to experience.

whenever i have a pt who believes in 'nothingness', i have to tell them "don't be frightened if you see _________".
they snort.
i wait.

leslie

While I have seen people have this kind of experience, I am pretty sure the person that has their first schizophrenic delusion finds it pretty life altering.

Yea it can be life altering and yea they may 'believe' it is real... but is it?

If it changes your life for better I guess it doesn't really matter if it is real. The only thing that is real that we know is that we will all find out what is truth in the end. No matter what you believe.

[maryloufu]

Originally Posted by ingelein

YES!! Lets make a pact to meet up in the hereafter, all the allnurses bunch, wouldn't it be a hoot?!

I will be the one in the camo scrubs by the chocolate fountain. You will know me when you see me.

[Angel08]

I have worked for hospice for several years and it is normal and common for a dying person to have visions at the time of death but also once they 'get close' to the dying process. It is in preparation...their loved ones come to get them, tell them its ok, etc. It can be so unsettling for patients; we tell them it is a normal thing and its ok to talk to them; its ok to go with them. This brings people peace and calms them.

[thepenartist]

http://www.near-death.com

Personal stories of those who have had a near-death experience (NDE); celebrities, historical figures, various religious figures....