[ingelein]

http://www.iands.org/nde_archives/ne..._daughter.html

This lady is a doctor and wow, what an experience, I choose to believe her. Definitly not scientific of me.

[hypocaffeinemia]

Originally Posted by BlueRidgeHomeRN

Fair enough, and also honest.

But kindly don't judge so harshly others who equally strongly believe that they have some real clues.

Belief is not synonymous with stupidity or naivete.

Speaking of jumping to conclusions, I never said anything of the sort.

In fact, my first post in this thread talks about how the effects on the patient and family can not be denied, regardless of origin.

Isn't that the important part?

Sort of like the family that prays for their loved one undergoing major surgery- Nevermind the fact that I believe the positive outcome is solely due to the skills of the surgeon and the nurses and the will and condition of the patient, I shouldn't discount the fact that their prayers give them and the patient comfort and hope.

[pagandeva2000]

I was a member of IANDS, not because I had an NDE, but because I had two out of body experiences, and did actually encounter my mother twice after she died. I met about 15 people who meet monthly to share their experiences. I met them by investigating IANDS and saw there is a group that meets not too far from where I live. They are really fascinating folks. By the time they shared their stories with me, I was so overcome with emotion, crying my eyes out. Most of them experienced trauma; one was an ectopic pregnancy, another gentleman was working on his roof and was struck by lightening, a young girl (around 20 years old) was in a car wreck are a few. Most of them were not only aware of what was happening in front of them, but also other areas, such as a friend's house across town, another room and such.

They are a strange lot; many do not worry about wearing coats in the cold or rainy days, they adhere to traffic, but will not run like crazy to get away from a fast, oncoming car. These people were not afraid of dying. Funny, they are not suicidal, but just not afraid. They were not spaced out people, in fact, some of them are very cynical, critical people, because they feel that this plane has nothing, we will all die anyhow and don't take what we take to heart in the same manner. They still have vicious arguments and can be petty, those aspects did not change. But, they are basically not afraid anylonger, and are totally honest with their feelings. I am honored to have met them. In fact, the only reason I don't meet with them any longer is because once I started nursing school, I was sadly too busy. But, I believe in all that they shared with my heart and soul.

[earle58]

Originally Posted by pagandeva2000

Some experiences are labeled as a less than positive NDE. These people have horrifying experiences, but most lead to a religious figure reaching for them for forgiveness, or that the experiencer calls upon who they consider as their Creator and then, they see the light. That one, in particular IS horrifying, to the patient as well as the witnesses. I wouldn't have felt so great, either, seeing that.

i too, have seen these type deaths.
what's interesting, is these pts i'm thinking of, didn't have any beliefs about afterlife.
they believed in nothingness, total nothingness.
kaput.
it's over.

it's obvious to me they did see something...whether it was a religious figure, an angel or something totally unfamiliar to them...
and it scared the begeezuz out of them, thinking all this time that nothing was going to happen.
it's a horrifying event to witness and more, to experience.

whenever i have a pt who believes in 'nothingness', i have to tell them "don't be frightened if you see _________".
they snort.
i wait.

leslie

[ingelein]

Originally Posted by earle58

i too, have seen these type deaths.
what's interesting, is these pts i'm thinking of, didn't have any beliefs about afterlife.
they believed in nothingness, total nothingness.
kaput.
it's over.

it's obvious to me they did see something...whether it was a religious figure, an angel or something totally unfamiliar to them...
and it scared the begeezuz out of them, thinking all this time that nothing was going to happen.
it's a horrifying event to witness and more, to experience.

whenever i have a pt who believes in 'nothingness', i have to tell them "don't be frightened if you see _________".
they snort.
i wait.

leslie

That could be frightening indeed to have such a staunch belief in one way of thinking, then at the time of death, seeing and experiencing something that blows all one's preconcieved notions out of the water.

[BlueRidgeHomeRN]

Originally Posted by ingelein

seeing and experiencing something that blows all one's preconcieved notions out of the water.

Like the bumper sticker ..."Its OK if you don't believe in ___________,

they still believe in YOU"!!

[pagandeva2000]

Originally Posted by ingelein

That could be frightening indeed to have such a staunch belief in one way of thinking, then at the time of death, seeing and experiencing something that blows all one's preconcieved notions out of the water.

Yeah, I'd say so, too. Especially since the person may feel that it is too late to 'cut a deal'. Seriously...a person that believed that nothing exists, has ignored the pleas of Christians, Muslims, whomever, suddenly sees something...and then, remembers all of these people who tried to convert them 'before it is too late' and becoming even more afraid, because they perceive themselves as a 'johnny come lately'.

Yes, Leslie, I would just wait, too...

[hypocaffeinemia]

Originally Posted by BlueRidgeHomeRN

Like the bumper sticker ..."Its OK if you don't believe in ___________,

they still believe in YOU"!!

That's why the flying spaghetti monster is there for you with his noodly appendages, whether or not you appreciate his pastaness.

[ingelein]

Originally Posted by methylene

That's why the flying spaghetti monster is there for you with his noodly appendages, whether or not you appreciate his pastaness.

OK, now you have done it, you have cursed yourself with flying spaghetti monster visions at the time of your death, may that be MANY years from now.

[BlueRidgeHomeRN]

Originally Posted by methylene

That's why the flying spaghetti monster is there for you with his noodly appendages, whether or not you appreciate his pastaness.

Not the pastaness so much as the meatballishesness, personally!

Oh yea--and he like you, too, whether you like it or not!