[ingelein]

Originally Posted by methylene

I believe in the power of the human brain's ability to placate the dying patient by releasing a rush of neurotransmitters and endorphins as it dies, resulting in powerful and occasionally disturbing auditory and visual hallucinations in their last moments.

These such hallucinations and emotions along with the patient's and families expectations of creed-dependent afterlives often bring comfort and joy to all involved, and should not be discounted or denied.

But that doesn't mean I have to believe they are supernatural in origin.

How do you explain the near death experiencer's accounts of what they SAW while clinically dead?Some actually reported accurately what was on top of cupboards and other things that they couldnt possibly have seen with their eyes while being resusitated. I guess we all can believe what we choose to, but there is SO much evidence , have you gone to the IANDS site and read some of these accounts?

http://www.iands.org/

[hypocaffeinemia]

Originally Posted by BlueRidgeHomeRN

Of course, you don't have to believe anything at all.

However, you might want to be open to the possibility that there is more than an endorphin rush to all this.....

Some of us who have spent a long time on this planet have seen and experienced things we can't begin to put into words.

Keep an open mind--life is chock full of surprises!

I don't appreciate the condescending tone of your post regarding my beliefs. I am fully open to the possibility. I consider it highly unlikely, along with all supernatural claims, but extraordinary evidence in support of extraordinary claims can not be ignored, were it ever to be found. This is how science works, after all.

[hypocaffeinemia]

Originally Posted by ingelein

How do you explain the near death experiencer's accounts of what they SAW while clinically dead?Some actually reported accurately what was on top of cupboards and other things that they couldnt possibly have seen with their eyes while being resusitated. I guess we all can believe what we choose to, but there is SO much evidence , have you gone to the IANDS site and read some of these accounts?

http://www.iands.org/

Anecdotes does not evidence make. There's a website devoted to every and all supernatural beliefs including psychic object reading and beyond- it's not like these things can't be scientifically tested.

Speaking of websites, here's a nice article detailing my point of view:
http://skepdic.com/nde.html
http://skepdic.com/obe.html

[pagandeva2000]

Originally Posted by emsboss

I also have seen many of the beautiful peaceful scenes just described. But, (y'all knew it was coming, didn'y ya?) I saw one young man, early 20's, losing to cancer who woke up in the middle of the night SCREAMING at the top of his lungs "HE is coming to get me HE is coming to get me!!!!" We all rushed into the room and it was horrible. The pt was backed up into the corner (he was too weak earlier to make the bathroom, used a BSC), IVs out, blood everywhere and pointing to the crucifix on the wall and SCREAMING. As we tried to get him back in bed he grabbed a nurse by the throat and then...simply fell over with the most horrified look on his face and died(DNR/DNI). When the mortuary came and picked him up he still had that expression on his face. I believe in a peaceful afterlife...BUT...There is also a not peaceful one also...I think...

Some experiences are labeled as a less than positive NDE. These people have horrifying experiences, but most lead to a religious figure reaching for them for forgiveness, or that the experiencer calls upon who they consider as their Creator and then, they see the light. That one, in particular IS horrifying, to the patient as well as the witnesses. I wouldn't have felt so great, either, seeing that.

[earle58]

Originally Posted by methylene

I don't appreciate the condescending tone of your post regarding my beliefs. I am fully open to the possibility. I consider it highly unlikely, along with all supernatural claims, but extraordinary evidence in support of extraordinary claims can not be ignored, were it ever to be found. This is how science works, after all.

i understand what you're saying.
for me, there is phenomena in life that just is not scientific.
it's supernatural and cannot be explained.
there are many scientists and researchers that agree there are credible occurrences but lack the tools/ability to explain it.
it just is.

leslie

[ingelein]

Originally Posted by methylene

Anecdotes does not evidence make. There's a website devoted to every and all supernatural beliefs including psychic object reading and beyond- it's not like these things can't be scientifically tested.

Speaking of websites, here's a nice article detailing my point of view:
http://skepdic.com/nde.html

True, they could be viewed as anecdotal.I guess it wont be known to us what truly will happen after death until our own time has come.

[BlueRidgeHomeRN]

Sorry you are offended, but you seem very sure that your beliefs are written in stone.

I was suggesting that over the course of a lifetime, individuals have been known to reconsider their outlook when presented with additional data. I certainly did. Not all knowledge can be disected by the scientific method.

Wish you the best on the journey.

[hypocaffeinemia]

Originally Posted by earle58

i understand what you're saying.
for me, there is phenomena in life that just is not scientific.
it's supernatural and cannot be explained.
there are many scientists and researchers that agree there are credible occurrences but lack the tools/ability to explain it.
it just is.

leslie

For me, the correct answer as to the origin of phenomena (currently) unexplained by science is to say "I don't know". I feel this is honest and more rewarding than arguably jumping to supernatural conclusions relative to one's particular creed.

We will likely have to agree to disagree on this point.

[hypocaffeinemia]

Originally Posted by BlueRidgeHomeRN

Sorry you are offended, but you seem very sure that your beliefs are written in stone.

I was suggesting that over the course of a lifetime, individuals have been known to reconsider their outlook when presented with additional data. I certainly did. Not all knowledge can be disected by the scientific method.

Wish you the best on the journey.

I was simply responding to the original post's search for thoughts regarding death bed visions. I wasn't attempting to establish universals regarding my beliefs. In fact, I haven't even shared my beliefs en masse as they are irrelevant to this thread- simply my methodology defending one particular belief.

[BlueRidgeHomeRN]

Originally Posted by methylene

"I don't know". I feel this is honest .

Fair enough, and also honest.

But kindly don't judge so harshly others who equally strongly believe that they have some real clues.

Belief is not synonymous with stupidity or naivete.