[RN Rotten Nurse]

Originally Posted by trauma_junkie1

I've got a question for you all:

I work in a busy ED and we recently recieved a memo from our management stating that we had a new "Code of Conduct." Among other things (soem of which make good sense and some of which are rediculous) one of the new "standards" is that we (nursing staff) are to always address physicians by "Dr. Smith" instead of "John" (example...).

Now, when talking to patients, I refer to doctors this way, but when talking to the doctors, I use first names. We're all friends, it's a tight knit group. Even the doctors have said, "that's dumb, don't call me that." Our feeling is that this is an example of managment that is out of touch. (Most of our docs don't have any clue who the managers are and these are people who have GREAT relationships with the nurses!)

I can't think of any other profession that would be asked to do that. Doctors don't call each other "Dr" if they're close friends. I'm not talking about docs that we don't know, faculty consultants. I'm talking about our own ER residents! We will actually be written up if management hears us call them by their first name, citing that it's "unprofessional."

Am I nuts here?

It's the same way where I work. We're expected to call them 'doctor' and last name. I don't mind though. However, there are one or two that I would like to address by another name. ehehe.

[hipab4hands]

[quote=missmercy]Me too - - one might think the docs are actually "human" or "normal people"!

Or we could go back to the old title of "medical diety"

I agree with the others, if the docs are going to be addressed as Dr. _______, o then I want the same level of respect , and be addressed as Nurse ______. by both the docs and management.

[cursenurse]

Originally Posted by mattsmom81

This is just another way of keeping nurses under their thumb...they don't want us getting too familiar or comfortable on the job or they might lose power.

In front of patients I address doctors appropriately. When we are away from the patient and he/she prefers first name, I will then use it.

What kinda bothers me here is why is it OK for patients, staff and everyone to refer to US by first name...seems it would be more 'professional' for me to be addressed as 'Nurse Jones' as well, eh? I believe it overfamiliarizes to address by first name in professional settings with patient relationships, personally.

And I wouldn't mind being addressed as 'Nurse Jones' by docs, patients, etc by the way...it might help with public perception of our status as professionals. Particularly with so many hospital employees in scrubs today. When I first started out in nursing, we were addressed in this way for a short time til things relaxed a bit. Course we also wore caps and dress whites...

i agree with this so wholeheartedly! i believe that the way that nursing is perceived by the public has so much to do with the fact that they don't have to use a title of respect when addressing us. i once read in a nursing issues/trends book that one of the ways to raise the public perception of nursing was to stop addressing ourselves and each other by first names. i have changed from offering my first name to pt's instead choosing to introduce myself by saying "my name is ms smith, i am your nurse." i think that when pt's have to "put a handle on it" as the old folks used to say, they are a little more respectful and less likely to treat you like you are "the help." another thing is that we often address the pt by mr or ms, why should they then be allowed to address us by first name? to me that conveys a total lack of respect for me as a professional and as an adult.

to the o.p. i think that within earshot of pt's everyone should be mr/ms or dr/nurse in order to preserve professionalism. if dr's and nurses want to address each other by first names away from pt's what difference does it make? it seems that your management should have other things to worry about.

[NeuroICURN]

Originally Posted by cursenurse

i agree with this so wholeheartedly! i believe that the way that nursing is perceived by the public has so much to do with the fact that they don't have to use a title of respect when addressing us. i once read in a nursing issues/trends book that one of the ways to raise the public perception of nursing was to stop addressing ourselves and each other by first names. i have changed from offering my first name to pt's instead choosing to introduce myself by saying "my name is ms smith, i am your nurse." i think that when pt's have to "put a handle on it" as the old folks used to say, they are a little more respectful and less likely to treat you like you are "the help." another thing is that we often address the pt by mr or ms, why should they then be allowed to address us by first name? to me that conveys a total lack of respect for me as a professional and as an adult.

to the o.p. i think that within earshot of pt's everyone should be mr/ms or dr/nurse in order to preserve professionalism. if dr's and nurses want to address each other by first names away from pt's what difference does it make? it seems that your management should have other things to worry about.

Do you REALLY do that???

IMHO...I think it's petty bickering about something like being adressed as "Nurse _______" that keeps us from being taken seriously. Seriously here guys....there are much MORE important things to argue about than this!

As for calling MDs by their first name. Yes, I do it, but not when speaking to a pt.

[ollikristiina]

hello

That sounds wierd... Ofcours if you work closely with someone you becom friends. And when you are friends you don't call your friend doctor or so. Ofcours we have to be proessional and polite with people we don't know and infront of our patients. But that is different. Sometimes it can be faster to call doctors with their first names.
We usually pressent us to the patients with our first names and call our patients with their first names. Ofcours we have to follow the culture of the country we work in but a new "cultural action" can not be forced to anyone. I think the managers of a ward should concider this when they make new rules. And as long the patients get the correct treatment it doesn't matter if we call the doctors by their first names

[RN4NICU]

If I have to call them Doctor, then they have to call me Supreme NICU Goddess.

I agree it is an absolutely absurd thing for management to pick on. I would not stand for being treated like a child - and what else can it be called? Physicians are "Dr. XYZ", patients are "Mr/Mrs. ABC", but nurses are "first name" -- just like children.

[trauma_junkie1]

Well, this has certainly been an interesting debate!

Personally, I don't want someone to call me Mr. So-and-so or Nurse So-and-so. I was orignally planning on going to Medical school and had planned on using my first name with people then too. I can see how the use of Dr. might put people at ease a bit more but it also can have the opposite effect.

Most of the docs I work with introduce themselves to patients (this is in an ED) by saying "Hi, I'm Bob Smith. I'm going to be one of the doctors taking care of you today."

Incidentally, I think that if you address a doc by first name, it doesn't amtter where you are. I REFER to docs as Dr. Smith when speaking to the patient, (ie Dr. Smith wrote you a prescription for Percocet) but don't ADDRESS them as such (ie, doc and I are in pts room and i need to ask the doc something, I say, "Bob, do you want to go ahead and give Mr Patient something for his headache?"). I don't think it's unprofessional. I see other professions do this all the time. I also see docs do this to each other all the time.

Example, if two docs are discussing something with a patient, they might say, "Dr. Jones and I have been talking" but they won't then call the other doc Dr. Jones when speaking to HIM.

So, I guess all that semantical nonsense I just went on about is to say that I think that TO ME it sounds deferential, like the doc is my superior rather than my colleague. Maybe it's just me....

[RN4NICU]

Originally Posted by trauma_junkie1

Well, this has certainly been an interesting debate!

Personally, I don't want someone to call me Mr. So-and-so or Nurse So-and-so. I was orignally planning on going to Medical school and had planned on using my first name with people then too. I can see how the use of Dr. might put people at ease a bit more but it also can have the opposite effect.

Most of the docs I work with introduce themselves to patients (this is in an ED) by saying "Hi, I'm Bob Smith. I'm going to be one of the doctors taking care of you today."

Incidentally, I think that if you address a doc by first name, it doesn't amtter where you are. I REFER to docs as Dr. Smith when speaking to the patient, (ie Dr. Smith wrote you a prescription for Percocet) but don't ADDRESS them as such (ie, doc and I are in pts room and i need to ask the doc something, I say, "Bob, do you want to go ahead and give Mr Patient something for his headache?"). I don't think it's unprofessional. I see other professions do this all the time. I also see docs do this to each other all the time.

Example, if two docs are discussing something with a patient, they might say, "Dr. Jones and I have been talking" but they won't then call the other doc Dr. Jones when speaking to HIM.

So, I guess all that semantical nonsense I just went on about is to say that I think that TO ME it sounds deferential, like the doc is my superior rather than my colleague. Maybe it's just me....

I totally agree with you and that is why I feel that the practice is absurd. They are professional colleagues, not superiors. If they were our "superiors" they would have the authority to hire and fire us (although some of them THINK that they do - they clearly do not.) For NURSING managment to expect/require this of their fellow nurses - I would no longer hold any respect for them as nursing colleagues. Ignorant management fools who might actually think that doctors "supervise" nurses (and are "Minor Dieties") are one thing, but fellow nurses know better and there is nothing worse than a traitor.

[trauma_junkie1]

Originally Posted by RN4NICU

For NURSING managment to expect/require this of their fellow nurses - I would no longer hold any respect for them as nursing colleagues.

I think they said goodbye to the respect of their colleagues (other than administration folks, who seem to universally derided by docs and nurses alike) a long time ago!

[cursenurse]

Originally Posted by NeuroICURN

Do you REALLY do that???

IMHO...I think it's petty bickering about something like being adressed as "Nurse _______" that keeps us from being taken seriously. Seriously here guys....there are much MORE important things to argue about than this!

As for calling MDs by their first name. Yes, I do it, but not when speaking to a pt.

yes, i do. i dont think that it's petty to be addressed in the manner that you would like. i am on a first name basis with my coworkers, but not my patients, what's wrong with that? i consider it to be a totally different relationship. i guess it goes back to how i was raised, you addressed adults by mr or ms and it has kind of carried over into adulthood for me. another thing is that for a lot of people, addressing them by first name without their permission in a situation where they are a customer or client is offensive and rude-it is considered overly familiar. it is often better to address a person more formally and then have them say "just call me John." we would probably not call a pt who desired to be called "mr jones" petty, so why would the nurse be considered so? i feel that it's high time that we allow ourselves the same rights and privileges that we extend to our pt's and the dr's we work with. i also believe that the whole issue of how to address people is both a cultural and a generational issue, and should be considered so that we dont offend our pt's or each other.