[prp009]

Originally Posted by lawrence01

The US Healthcare System will not fold up if there are no nurses with BSN or MSNs if that is what you are driving at.

It will run perfectly well with the ADNs, diploma nurses, LPNs and med techs that you are talking about. Throw in US-born MDs as well. It will run perfectly well with just them and no imports from other countries.

Foreign-educated nurses and non-US nationals educated in the US School system, whether nurses, physicians or other popular courses like IT must not have a feeling of entitlement.

Everyone are just guests in the grand scheme of things. It is this feeling of entitlement that irks US nationals.

Remember, if the US wants to be really strict about things then all F1 student visas should not be allowed to stay after graduation. Part of being granted the F1 student visa is that there is understanding that they will be going back to their home countries and not stay in the US after graduation. There was never a guarantee that F1 or M1 student visas will ALL be allowed to stay and work in the US.

If I were an American, I would have probably made the same comment as you just. Very understandale.

[elkpark]

Originally Posted by prasamsa

Suzanne, Just wondering, are you for international nurses or against them?
I have not seen any positive posts from you yet. I firmly believe that retrogression is gonna be lifted soon. There is no way US healthcare system can sustain without foreign nurses. (like any other sectors- IT, lans scaping, farming) I am sorry but it's the glass is half full or half empty scenario and you definitely always see it half-empty! Prasamsa

I don't know where you're getting your information from, but, at the present time there is no significant nursing shortage in the US. Much of the publicity about the "shortage" is coming from people and organizations who stand to benefit from such a perception (like all the international placement agencies that want foreign nurses to sign up and pay lots of fees in hopes of coming to the US). The US government's own labor figures show that there are presently more than enough licensed US RNs to fill every vacancy in the country -- it's just that many of them are choosing not to work as RNs because of the low salaries and poor working conditions offered by many hospitals/employers. Many of those RNs are already returning to the workplace because of the recent downturn in the US economy.

There are areas of the US that have legitimate shortages; but those tend to be the parts of the country that are less popular and desirable for people to live -- places that foreign nurses don't want to live, either (I notice the majority of the posts here from people wanting to immigrate to the US seem to involve moving to CA or NY). In many areas of the country, the more "popular" and desirable areas to live, the market for nurses is completely saturated; new graduates from US schools can't find jobs in those areas at all, and even experienced RNs have difficulty finding jobs. Don't take my word for it -- look at all the threads on this site on that very topic! In my state, according to the state agency that tracks nursing workforce issues, there is officially no nursing shortage and we haven't had a shortage in many years. Plenty of other states are in the same good condition.

The US healthcare system doesn't "need" foreign nurses at all. Also, the US turns out plenty of BSN-prepared nurses all by itself -- are you not aware of all the BSN programs in the US? (However, even if we weren't turning out plenty of "home-grown" BSN nurses, it's highly debatable whether BSN-prepared nurses are really "better" nurses than ADN or diploma graduates.)

I don't see how anyone can expect that retrogression will be lifted soon. That is simply wishful thinking; the numbers just don't compute. And it's not just the US; the immigration situation in much of the world has changed significantly in recent years. Canada and the EU have also put greater restrictions on nurses immigrating, I understand. Personally, I hope the US will never go back to the days of allowing large numbers of foreign nurses to be brought in by employers, as it just enables (some) employers to keep US nursing salaries low and working conditions poor.

[elkpark]

Originally Posted by prasamsa

If I were an American, I would have probably made the same comment as you just. Very understandale.

Are you aware that Lawrence01 is not an American?

[lawrence01]

Originally Posted by prasamsa

If I were an American, I would have probably made the same comment as you just. Very understandale.

But I am not an American. See my location on my profile. It says Philippines.

[prp009]

Originally Posted by elkpark

Are you aware that Lawrence01 is not an American?

It does not matter to me personally. I just think it's sad that the community with so many members are against immigration improvements. There are way too many immigration laws that does not make any sense. Nursing immigration is just not one of them.

[elkpark]

Originally Posted by prasamsa

It does not matter to me personally. I just think it's sad that the community with so many members are against immigration improvements. There are way too many immigration laws that does not make any sense. Nursing immigration is just not one of them.

"Improvement" is in the eye of the beholder -- what one person considers an immigration "improvement" might easily be considered a deterioration by another. You are entitled your opinions, and so is everyone else here. However, just because there are many nurses in other countries who want to come to the US, that doesn't mean that the US needs to allow them to come. Like every other country, US immigration law is designed to reflect the needs and interests of the US, not necessarily the needs and interests of the citizens of other countries.

[Nurse!Nurse!Hello?]

Originally Posted by prasamsa

Are you trying to say we should let 2-years associate nurses, diploma nurses, LPN and med techs run the healthcare system? Coz if the government does not do something about the retrogression, I see that situation coming pretty soon!

Let me share a secret with you...associate's degree nurses, diploma nurses, LPN's and med techs pretty much already run the healthcare system, with a smattering of BSN's and MD's thrown in for good measure!

Most Americans would agree that the US government needs to focus on training and retaining US nurses. The only ones who think differently are immigration lawyers and healthcare administrators --> those who stand to benefit financially from importing foreign nurses. "Doing something about the retrogression" is most certainly not a real solution.

[prp009]

Originally Posted by Nurse!Nurse!Hello?

In order to fully understand HR 5924, I would encourage people to read the complete text of the bill, rather than just the small portion cited by Hoss.

The purpose of the bill is to address the so-called "nursing shortage" in the United States. Part of the bill deals with temporarily increasing visas for nurses, but the larger portion involves addressing the problem of educating and retaining US nurses.

In a nutshell, HR 5924 will dump a whole lot of grant money into US nursing programs to attract, train, and retain US nurses in order to ensure an adequate supply of nurses for the future. An emphasis will be placed on increasing the number of nurses with advanced degrees, so that nursing schools will have enough faculty members to teach the increasing number of US nursing students. An emphasis will also be placed on retaining the nurses who are already working.

I know that people will get excited over anything that has to do with more visa availability, but keep it in perspective so you will not be disappointed (again...) 20,000 visas for the entire world is a small, small number, considering the many people who want to apply. Read the full text of the bill--it is primarily designed to address educating nurses in the US. Increasing the number of visas for foreign nurses is just a stop-gap measure. It's putting a bandaid on the US healthcare system while the wound is healing.

"so-called nursing shortage" -- United States Department of Labor's press releases makes it very clear that there is indeed a real nursing shortage. Not just a so-called one. Or if you want, you can also check "bureau of labor statistics" website for more details.

[suzanne4]

Originally Posted by prasamsa

Suzanne, Just wondering, are you for international nurses or against them?
I have not seen any positive posts from you yet. I firmly believe that retrogression is gonna be lifted soon. There is no way US healthcare system can sustain without foreign nurses. (like any other sectors- IT, lans scaping, farming) I am sorry but it's the glass is half full or half empty scenario and you definitely always see it half-empty! Prasamsa

I actually have taught foreign nurses for years, but the fact remains that things do change and the US is pushing for their own citizens to become nurse and therefore be able to support their families first, before pemitting additional visas for foreign trained nurses.

And the retrogression is not going to lift anytime soon as there are increasing number of applicants for the green card and no increase in the number of visas that are available per year.

You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. And with many items to back up what I am saying is only more proof. Suspect that you are not in the US and working here as of yet, you will see things differently if you were doing so.

The fact remains that there are many more that wish to get the green card, so those that are starting the process now will have five years plus for a wait for many birth countries and there is no longer any guarantee that one that trains here will be able to remain.

[suzanne4]

Originally Posted by prasamsa

"so-called nursing shortage" -- United States Department of Labor's press releases makes it very clear that there is indeed a real nursing shortage. Not just a so-called one. Or if you want, you can also check "bureau of labor statistics" website for more details.

In some areas of the US, but not all. The ones where people really want to work do not have them. And if you take the time to do some reading here especially on the state forums, you will see that it is difficult for even a new grad to find a place to work near their home as there are not spots available.

You can read all of the statistics that you want, but that is not going to get one hired or a visa to work here.

Your choice. We are just telling things as they are, not as one would necessarily hope that they are.