[blueeyedgoose]

Though I'm not a full fledged RN yet I do consider myself to be a mandated reporter. Today, while out shopping with my husband, I happened to witness a man in his early 30 with two small children. Ages looked to be about a boy of 3, who was sitting in the carriage, and a girl around 4. The children were not bouncing off the walls and terrorizing the store they were simple being kids. He was yelling at them very loudly, swearing at them, telling them he was going to take them right back to their mother's. He happened to stand behind me in the check -out line. I was point blank staring at him at this point hoping that he would look at me and realize that his behavior was inappropriate towards the children but he never did. I felt so usless but I also felt very protective of his children I didn't know how to handle this situation diplomaticaly. But when I heard the man say he was going to slap him in the face when he got outside I just opened my mouth and sad to him "Seems like someone needs a time out!" He thought I was referring to his children and said, "For sure you don't know the half of it." Meanwhile I observed that his jugular vein was poping out. ( I thought to myself this guys going to lose it here any moment) I then replied, "You are the one who needs the time out not your children!" My husband got mad that I got involved and made me move to the otherside of him. So, does anyone have any similiar stories and how did you handle it?
I asked my 25 year old son if he saw someone abuse a child what he would do? He said that he would do nothing because what would it accomplish. I was not very pleased with his response. Thanks for listening!

[FutureNavyNrs]

How awful. I think you did the right thing by saying something, for what it's worth. I haven't ever seen anything out in the community, but if I did, I'd like to think that I'd stand up and say something the way you did.

I had the hardest time in Peds clinicals, because when I was there, 80% of the kids on the floor were in for something related to abuse. It was sickening. I had the hardest time remaining professional and not yelling at the parents. The worst ones were the infants.

In any case, thanks for saying something and I'm sorry that you had to witness something that awful.

[APBT mom]

While I don't think what he said was appropriate nor do I hope he carried out what he said he was going to do when he left the store (I'm going to be the devils advocate here) you don't know the entire situation. Although the children were being typical kids in line. That doesn't mean that not five minutes earlier they were running around terrorizing the store or whinning about how they wanted something when he clearly said no. It also could be by the comment he said about taking them to their mother's that he is not in the childrens life consistently which could have a lot to do with the frustrations (getting aggrivated about the situation could have also caused his neck veins to bulge) he was having with the children. He could have even been the type of parent that threatens their child with death with no intentions of ever acting out on what they say. While this is also wrong you just don't know.

I kind of side with you and your sons response. You did what you thought was right because you didn't want the father to act out on what he said. I agree with your son because what did you accomplish with your response to the situation? You called him out and made him realize what he said but you don't know if he didn't act out on it after you left.

[rph3664]

You also don't know out there might have a gun, or accomplices.



I'm pretty sure the "mandatory reporter" thing only covers people you care for in practice, not something you observed on the street.

[suanna]

As much as the guys behavior was out of line I don't feel your comment was very helpful. It was more likely to aggrivate him further- some kids could have "caught it when they got home" for embarassing dad in the store. He was obviously having a tough time with anger issues but smart a**ed comments were not going to help him regain control. If I was your spouse I would have been irked as well.

[APBT mom]

Originally Posted by suanna

As much as the guys behavior was out of line I don't feel your comment was very helpful. It was more likely to aggrivate him further- some kids could have "caught it when they got home" for embarassing dad in the store. He was obviously having a tough time with anger issues but smart a**ed comments were not going to help him regain control. If I was your spouse I would have been irked as well.

I was going to say this but I stopped. I've seen it happen.

[APBT mom]

Originally Posted by rph3664

You also don't know out there might have a gun, or accomplices.



I'm pretty sure the "mandatory reporter" thing only covers people you care for in practice, not something you observed on the street.

If she say him smack the child across the face she could have called the police if she wanted but like you said I think it's mandatory if you see it while caring for the patient. But even if she would have saw it how would you prevent the father from leaving, if you got them to stay and the cops did come out some states allow corporal punishment so in the officers eyes there wouldn't have been a problem.

I just think in this day and age a lot of people are scared to hit their kids. Most of our parents got spanked with whatever their parents felt fit (mine got the privelage of going outside and pulling thier own switch) even some of us did and it wasn't abuse. Even worse every bump, bruise, cut, or broken bone a child gets can cause a person to call CPS/DCF on the parents without even knowing what happened. Our the schools tell the children that no one should touch you without permission or it's abuse. Then they come home and threaten their parents with" of you hit me I'll call the cops and you'll go to jail." Then the children go wild knowing that they're "untouchable" and time outs stop working past the age of 5.

In some areas there are so many cases of child abuse and not enough case workers that a lot of the time they do a couple of house visits and that's the end of it. There's no removing the children or having the parent(s) arrested. The parents are ordered to clean the house, get a voucher for therapy, and take some parenting classes.

However, when you see a trus case it's heartbreaking to see a 4/5 year old who has no life in their eyes and fear ever person who resembles their abuser or every mistake or accident they have will result in them flinching waiting for someone to come down on them.

[nurz2be]

I have called the police once, it was a neglect issue that prompted a child falling out of a cart onto its head and the mother yelling at the poor kid for falling....ambulance and dhs showed up ad kid was removed.....long story.

Now, personally, unless you are actively calling the police or whomever I would not say a thing. Reason, if this guys veins are popping and he is threatening the kid(s) and you get him even more angry than he already is, he IS likely to take it out on the kids even worse because, in his mind, they caused him to get yelled at by none other than a woman. (Been around TONS of abusive men and they do think this way). So, unless you are going to do something to remove those kids from that situation, for those kids (or any others you might run upon) it is better you not make the situation worse for the kids. They will be the ones who pay in the end, unfortunately. Is it right or fair, no. It does happen more than we might want to think.

My father was a Pediatrician, being around him talking about these type of people, and actually seeing them first hand in dad's clinic, they do happen.

My advice, again, unless you can remove them from the situation, don't make these people more ticked off and more abusive by calling them out. Those kids have it bad enough as it is.

[Logos]

I have three kids who love to act like creations when I am at the store with them. I have threatened many times to smack their asses if they don't get it together. & I have witnessed other parents make similar threats and say things like wait until I tell your father/mother whatever. I actually usually feel bad for those parents, because I know what MONSTERS kids can be. Since your son is 25 maybe you forget what it is like to have multiple children stressing you out of your mind.

You say that he was swearing at them and yelling very loudly. I don't know what the swearing was- the word ass or something similar? Or was it blatant derogatory- insulting the children with adult words? I don't know about the loud- that is kind of subjective- I know pretty looking soft spoken women who could smile and talk in a tone of voice sweet as sugar but their words cold be pure evil.

Were the kids dirty, dressed inappropriately for the weather, look hungry or cowering away from dad?

I don't know but what you described does not sound abusive to me. Instead of being judgmental -why not be helpful. Say something encouraging and calming instead of something that insults his parenting?
Quite frankly what you said sounded pretty snooty and if you had said that to me I would have told you to mind your own business and their may have been more swearing.

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by Tampagirl

I just think in this day and age a lot of people are scared to hit their kids. Most of our parents got spanked with whatever their parents felt fit (mine got the privelage of going outside and pulling thier own switch) even some of us did and it wasn't abuse. Even worse every bump, bruise, cut, or broken bone a child gets can cause a person to call CPS/DCF on the parents without even knowing what happened. Our the schools tell the children that no one should touch you without permission or it's abuse. Then they come home and threaten their parents with" of you hit me I'll call the cops and you'll go to jail." Then the children go wild knowing that they're "untouchable" and time outs stop working past the age of 5.

In some areas there are so many cases of child abuse and not enough case workers that a lot of the time they do a couple of house visits and that's the end of it. There's no removing the children or having the parent(s) arrested. The parents are ordered to clean the house, get a voucher for therapy, and take some parenting classes.

However, when you see a trus case it's heartbreaking to see a 4/5 year old who has no life in their eyes and fear ever person who resembles their abuser or every mistake or accident they have will result in them flinching waiting for someone to come down on them.

From what I have heard the "no one can touch you without permission" is more about sexual abuse than spanking. And spanking isn't an effective method of discipline for a child above preschool age, from what I understand (I do not have children).

A woman on another board posted a story about a woman sitting by her at a formal dinner who was a CPS caseworker, and she said that neither she nor any of her colleagues had EVER been asked to investigate an "abuse" report that turned out to be legitimate discipline.

I know a woman (who works in health care but not as a nurse) who believes that CPS should completely butt out of disciplining children. Yes, she actually believes that if a parent wishes to burn a child, break a bone, etc. in the name of discipline, it should be permitted. You can't do it to your spouse, co-worker, neighbor, etc. so why should you be able to do it to your child?

My mother's favorite discipline method was pulling hair, and she once kicked my brother, who was then about 12 years old, in the stomach for sitting too close to the TV. I was hoping she would really hurt him because then people (including our father) would believe me when I told them how she acted when other adults were not around. Tampagirl, do you think it's okay for someone to do that?