[mercyteapot]

Doesn't this violate the entire point of rehab, that being, before anyone can help you, you have to want to help yourself (and be willing to do what you need to do)? I see celeb after celeb emerge from COR only to relapse, and I'm sure it happens among the non-celeb set, too. I find it particularly contraindicated when offenders are "sentenced" into AA or NA, because to me their presence alters the group dynamic from one in which all members have made the commitment to change their behavior, to one in which some of the members are sincere, and others are just hanging out to avoid jail time.

[TitaniaSidhe]

Speaking as someone with 15yrs. clean- the primary purpose of NA is to carry the message to the addict who still suffers. It doesn't much matter how or what brings a person into the rooms so they can hear the message that any addict can lose the desire to use, stop using & find a new way to live. That being said you are correct in stating that an individual must have the desire to stop & make their own internal acknowledgement that they have a problem. It is the job of the individual memebers of the home group to maintain the atmosphere of recovery in meetings so that the message can be clearly heard. Now then speaking in regard to mixing Psych & addiction I think the whole thing is pointless & counterproductive for any long term recovery. It is the nature of medicine to prescribe medication to treat "illness" & it is the nature of the addict to look for the quick fix from an outside source. The only real way to achieve long term recovery is to look at the internal source for the compulsion to use or look for something external to fix an inside problem. To hand an addict a pill for...say depression & say here you are depressed take this is not effective. They need to address the reasons & behaviors which have lead to the depression, work, through introspection, to effect a personality change for the positive. Prescribing psych medications for addicts is the WORST & most counterproductive thing medicine can do. This is why NA speaks of total abstinence from any & all mood & mind altering drugs. Now mind you before everyone jumps on me here...lol...allow me to say there are programs specifically for dual diagnosed or MICA patients but these people do not belong in NA meetings & should not be encouraged to attend this particular 12 step fellowship. All that being said I guess with the court ordered thing, if it plants a seed that the individual will remember later down the road then it is worthwhile. Usually however an individual must hit their ROCK bottom in a rather painful manner prior to accepting the need for change & becoming willing to follow direction & do whatever is necessary to stay clean. MANY never reach this point & die along the way, sad but true. Psych is not effective in treating addiction, there is no empathy from someone who has never experienced active addiction & they are so very easily manipulated. You can't bullshyt another addict but you can the psychologist or social worker or doctor who read all about addiction in a book. There definately should be a limit on chances for rehab. If a person is court ordered & goes then immediately blows that chance they shouldn't be given another. They don't need rehab more than once anyhow all it does is buy you some time off the street in a safe environment & introduce you to the various 12 step fellowships which will be where you should go for help upon discharge. Detox should be inpatient only when there is physical danger from the withdrawl such as benzos, alcohol or barbituates. Heroin doesn't kill you it just makes you wish you were dead & cocaine well there is no physical withdrawl from that so what is the point? I could go on but I think it is time to give up the rant for today....lol. Just my 2 cents, I am sure many will not agree but oh well it is what makes us interesting.

[mercyteapot]

Thank you for your response, Titania. Your experience and perspective are very enlightening. What you've said about meds for an addict makes total sense to me. I didn't actually choose to post this topic in this forum; I had it under general nursing and it got moved.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

Doesn't this violate the entire point of rehab, that being, before anyone can help you, you have to want to help yourself (and be willing to do what you need to do)? I see celeb after celeb emerge from COR only to relapse, and I'm sure it happens among the non-celeb set, too. I find it particularly contraindicated when offenders are "sentenced" into AA or NA, because to me their presence alters the group dynamic from one in which all members have made the commitment to change their behavior, to one in which some of the members are sincere, and others are just hanging out to avoid jail time.

Addicts usually have very little insight into their disease. They'll deny they're addicted and it can prevent them from seeking help. However, I've seen a few addicts do an about-face in thinking once they've gone to a few meetings and realize that their stories are frighteningly similar to those are admitting their addictions and who are in recovery.

So maybe COR can save a few lives. Even if it only helped one addict to recovery, it'd be worth it, don't you think?

[mercyteapot]

Originally Posted by Angie O'Plasty, RN

Addicts usually have very little insight into their disease. They'll deny they're addicted and it can prevent them from seeking help. However, I've seen a few addicts do an about-face in thinking once they've gone to a few meetings and realize that their stories are frighteningly similar to those are admitting their addictions and who are in recovery.

So maybe COR can save a few lives. Even if it only helped one addict to recovery, it'd be worth it, don't you think?

Not if their presence negatively impacts the recovery efforts of those that are trying to get clean. That was my question, and one that I think a recovering addict is best able to answer.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

Originally Posted by mercyteapot

Not if their presence negatively impacts the recovery efforts of those that are trying to get clean. That was my question, and one that I think a recovering addict is best able to answer.

Oh, sorry. Didn't realize you were looking for a specific person to answer.

But still, in any recovery group there are "old-timers" who mentor and help the newbies. So it isn't like a bunch of addicts without any desire to recover are all lumped in together.

Maybe you should go to one of the Open or Beginner meetings of AA? They're great about answering your questions.

[mercyteapot]

I wasn't looking for a specific person to answer, and this isn't pressing enough for me to go to a beginner AA meeting. Never even heard of them. Are they actually for people with just a general interest, or are they meant for people who are considering membership? What prompted yesterday's question was a story I read about Courtney Love, finishing yet another court ordered rehab stint. When I said that I thought a recovering addict was best able to answer my question, I wasn't commenting on what I posted the question looking for, but what I felt like I gained from reading Titania's response.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

Well, then all I can say is that I have seen people court-ordered to AA--Alcoholics Anonymous--and some have realized that they had a problem and gotten into Recovery and others have not.

I think what you're trying to say is that if someone gets ordered into a group and that person doesn't want to recover, s/he will influence others to relapse.

But it doesn't work that way IRL.

It doesn't matter if there are people there who might not want to recover. Recovery happens in every group. Relapses happen in every group. It's a lifelong process.

My point is: Each person in a 12-Step Program is ultimately responsible for his/her own recovery. Most of the 12-Step programs are based on the AA model, in which each person who enters a program is encouraged to get a "sponsor" in addition to personal counseling and group meetings.

[mercyteapot]

It really is better for you not to summarize "what I am saying" since you are not getting it right. Perhaps that is what you are drawing from it, but you really don't know what is in my mind. What I am actually saying is rehab is difficult enough when one has made a sincere commitment to change, and it seems unfair to introduce those who haven't made that commitment into the group dynamic. Perhaps if there were groups just for people who are under court order to attend, that would make more sense to me. Everyone has the right to disagree, but no one has the right to announce to me what I feel or think, thankyouverymuch.

[Angie O'Plasty, RN]

OK, good enough. I'm outta here.