[Jedi of Zen]

Could anyone explain the difference between these 3 terms?

I'm not necessarily looking for particular websites or textbook definitions, because I already know what they are. Although if you happen to know of any sites that are particularly good (ie, besides wikpedia, webmd, and all the other walmart-quality of sources out there), feel free to post them.

What I would really be interested in, though, is hearing a layman's definition from a nurse who already works with pulmonary-problem patients. ie, someone who has actual experience, understands these term, and can do more than just quote a textbook. (Not to belabor the point, but I'm just having a hard time establishing some consistency among all the texts that I'm researching.)

I know that there is already a student forum for questions. I don't normally post questions outside of that forum, but I would really, really like to hear from a pulmonary-experienced RN on this.

Thanks so much.

[Eve Ryone]

Hi.

I asked three of the instructors at my school the difference between Kussmaul's and hyperventilation. One of them, who I respect, said "Kussmaul's? I've never heard of Kussmaul's." My anatomy and physiology instructor said they are pretty much the same.

The head of the program told me that Kussmaul's is marked by heavy, forced expiration. She said that during ketoacidosis, the body is trying to expel CO2. It can look like hyperventilation because for every deep expulsion of air, the patient needs to take a corresponding inspiration, but the expulsion os much more pronounced. She said during hyperventilation, the breaths are usually shallower.

I found your question because I googled "hyoerventilation vs Kussmaul's", after seeing differing and vague distinctions in my 7 textbooks! It was a direct hit, but I didn't find the answer here! It is very disconcerting to find so many different answers.

Hope this helped.

[NRSKarenRN]

hyperpnea:
abnormal increase in the depth and rate of breathing ... may be normal rate or >30+ breaths per minute. More commonly called tachypnea in my neck of the woods. Inhalation and exhalation usually same depth but appears force; tired haggerd appearance if long standing illness.
Can answer questions about health.
Seen in persons with COPD, Asthma, Tension Pneumothorax, head injury


Hyperventilation:
is rapid or deep breathing. Shorter inspiration and longer expiration with rates over 30-40 + breaths per minute.
Often caused by anxiety or panic, seen distance runners at end of run.
Breathing pattern heightens feeling of breathlessness. Patients can usually answer questions.

Kussmaul:
pattern of deep and rapid respiration...also called air hunger---worsening above scenerios.
Seen particularly in metabolic acidosis.
Patients can rarely speak a sentence, usually 1-2 word answers to questions being asked.
Prompt use Venturi non-rebreathing mask, CPAP or prepare to intubate....especially if they tell you their tired and just going to sleep + suddenly nod off.

[Jedi of Zen]

Originally Posted by NRSKarenRN

hyperpnea:
abnormal increase in the depth and rate of breathing ... may be normal rate or >30+ breaths per minute. More commonly called tachypnea in my neck of the woods. Inhalation and exhalation usually same depth but appears force; tired haggerd appearance if long standing illness.
Can answer questions about health.
Seen in persons with COPD, Asthma, Tension Pneumothorax, head injury

So hypernea = tachypnea? Same thing?

[Jedi of Zen]

Originally Posted by Eve Ryone

Hi.

I asked three of the instructors at my school the difference between Kussmaul's and hyperventilation. One of them, who I respect, said "Kussmaul's? I've never heard of Kussmaul's." My anatomy and physiology instructor said they are pretty much the same.

The head of the program told me that Kussmaul's is marked by heavy, forced expiration. She said that during ketoacidosis, the body is trying to expel CO2. It can look like hyperventilation because for every deep expulsion of air, the patient needs to take a corresponding inspiration, but the expulsion os much more pronounced. She said during hyperventilation, the breaths are usually shallower.

I found your question because I googled "hyoerventilation vs Kussmaul's", after seeing differing and vague distinctions in my 7 textbooks! It was a direct hit, but I didn't find the answer here! It is very disconcerting to find so many different answers.

Hope this helped.

Thanks. Yes, I agree - sometimes it seems like the terms become entirely arbitrary after a certain point.

[Ventjock]

Originally Posted by Jedi of Zen

So hypernea = tachypnea? Same thing?

my understanding was that tachypnea is a measure of rate only, shallow/deep breathing is not accounted for.

hypernea is a measure of depth AND rate like others have said, most common example is during exercise

hyperventilation is all that it implies: "hyper-ventilation". ventilation deals with CO2 elimination. hyperventilation has nothing to do with rate

example: on a ventilated pt (sedated of course) you can get a patient down to a PaCO2 of 25 with a RR of 8-10 by increasing the VT. by definition this patient is being hyperventilated, even with the slow RR.

on the other hand you can have a pt on a control rate of 20-25 with small VTs, yet the pt is not hyperventilating because the CO2 would be rising, thus the pt is really HYPOventilating.