[indigo girl]

Originally Posted by Jolie

The article clearly stated that the source of this girl's infection is UNKNOWN,
and that the genetic make-up of her virus was SIMILAR, but not identical to, that used in live vaccines outside the US, but NOT in this country.

To post that her infection was caused by the live polio vaccine is to spread mis-information.

Not according to this:

http://pathmicro.med.sc.edu/virol/po...outbreak05.htm

This is also interesting:

http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=663

[indigo girl]

Originally Posted by Suesquatch

Interesting. According to that article, the polio numbers were manipulated. Now, as a child in the 50s born pre-polio-vaccination, I remember lots of people walking around with braces from the illness, and my parents remember entire families being wiped out from the disease.

The only U.S. outbreak of the disease in decades was within a small, non-immunizing Amish community.

What about the SV40 contamination of the polio vaccine in that article?

http://www.nccn.net/%7Ewwithin/polio.htm#randall

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co...ract/160/4/306

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/iom_...tail.cfv?id=49

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co...ract/160/4/317

Looks like the IOM doesn't agree with some of the studies. If these guys can't agree with each other, who are we to believe?

[EricJRN]

I think Jolie is pretty much on target here actually. By completely reading the sc.edu article, we see that this was identified in the lab as a VDPV, a type of poliovirus that comes from oral polio vaccine. It's pretty clear that although the specific source was unknown, there was 2.3% divergence from the parent strain, which tells us that the virus had been replicating for about two years, making it older than the baby. Since we haven't used OPV here in the US for far greater than two years, the logical conclusion is that this was transmitted from someone who received OPV in another country.

A side note: this isn't a cut and dry case of a normal baby picking up polio from another vaccinated person. This kiddo was a seven month old with an undiagnosed case of severe combined immunodeficiency (SCID), a medical rarity found in 1 in 500,000 children.

Originally Posted by indigo girl

Not according to this:

http://pathmicro.med.sc.edu/virol/po...outbreak05.htm

This is also interesting:

http://www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm?art=663

[Suesquatch]

What does simian virus have to do with my remarks? Could you please provide me with some connection, however foggy, to what *I* said? I really don't feel like playing dueling URLs if you are going to keep changing the subject.

I never claimed that there was never an immunization contaminated or that proved to be dangerous to someone. You're completely missing the big picture in your concentration on proving that immunizatons are an evil plot to make money by Big Pharma, notwithstanding that vaccines make next to nothing.

[indigo girl]

Originally Posted by EricEnfermero

I think Jolie is pretty much on target here actually. By completely reading the sc.edu article, we see that this was identified in the lab as a VDPV, a type of poliovirus that comes from oral polio vaccine. It's pretty clear that although the specific source was unknown, there was 2.3% divergence from the parent strain, which tells us that the virus had been replicating for about two years, making it older than the baby. Since we haven't used OPV here in the US for far greater than two years, the logical conclusion is that this was transmitted from someone who received OPV in another country.

A side note: this isn't a cut and dry case of a normal baby picking up polio from another vaccinated person. This kiddo was a seven month old with an undiagnosed case of severe combined immunodeficiency (SCID), a medical rarity found in 1 in 500,000 children.

Then I stand corrected. Thank you for clarifying.

[Josifek]

Originally Posted by mandana

Indigo girl - I see from 2 posts today that you have strong feelings on vaccinating children. Both of my children received their first Hep B in the hospital. I believe that vaccines are safe and effective. What happens when people stop vaccinating their kids because of concerns about Thimerosol? This does. This has just started. I suspect it will get a lot worse before it gets better.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/condi...s.outbreak.ap/

This article states that 66% of infected people in the recent mumps outbread were fully vaccinated and another 14% were partialy vaccinated. If these vaccines are so effected then why are 66% of those infected recently coming down with mumps? We had an outbreak in middle school in 1987 in which several of my completely vaccinated friends got mumps. One had to have a gonad removed do to the fact that it hits this region hard after puberty. So far, no one in the recent outbreak has died and I think the numbers are up to 1,600 and growing. Mumps, like rueblla and chicken pox in a healthy child is an uncomfortable situation that passes. I would rather a mild experience with mumps at the age of 6 than a gonadectomy at the age of 35 because the vaccine wore off. Indigo Girl: Keep Questioning!!!

[Suesquatch]

Originally Posted by Josifek

This article states that 66% of infected people in the recent mumps outbread were fully vaccinated and another 14% were partialy vaccinated. If these vaccines are so effected then why are 66% of those infected recently coming down with mumps? We had an outbreak in middle school in 1987 in which several of my completely vaccinated friends got mumps. One had to have a gonad removed do to the fact that it hits this region hard after puberty. So far, no one in the recent outbreak has died and I think the numbers are up to 1,600 and growing. Mumps, like rueblla and chicken pox in a healthy child is an uncomfortable situation that passes. I would rather a mild experience with mumps at the age of 6 than a gonadectomy at the age of 35 because the vaccine wore off. Indigo Girl: Keep Questioning!!!

Things mutate, Josifk. And perhaps the cases were not as severe as they would have been sans vaccine. Maybe that's why no one has died in the current outbreaks.

I remember the pre-MMR days and knew children who were either left deaf or sterile from mumps.

[mandana]

Originally Posted by Josifek

This article states that 66% of infected people in the recent mumps outbread were fully vaccinated and another 14% were partialy vaccinated. If these vaccines are so effected then why are 66% of those infected recently coming down with mumps? We had an outbreak in middle school in 1987 in which several of my completely vaccinated friends got mumps. One had to have a gonad removed do to the fact that it hits this region hard after puberty. So far, no one in the recent outbreak has died and I think the numbers are up to 1,600 and growing. Mumps, like rueblla and chicken pox in a healthy child is an uncomfortable situation that passes. I would rather a mild experience with mumps at the age of 6 than a gonadectomy at the age of 35 because the vaccine wore off. Indigo Girl: Keep Questioning!!!

Roughly 10% of people who receive two vaccinations will not seroconvert. I'm not much of a gambler, but I'm going to go ahead and place my money on the 90% that will.

Amanda

[mandana]

Originally Posted by Suesquatch

I remember the pre-MMR days and knew children who were either left deaf or sterile from mumps.

And of course, we don't know if any of these kids will be sterile from their infections. Six hundred cases in Iowa alone, this year compared to an average in the US of ~260 a year - one can only wonder how many cases there would be if there weren't vaccinations.

Amanda

[Suesquatch]

Here's some interesting epidemiological stuff on mumps from the World Health Organization. I don't think the UN's public health folks are making a fortune trying to eradicate, you know, plagues and stuff.

http://www.who.int/vaccines/en/mumps.shtml