[canoehead]

"I did clinicals in one the other and when the surgeon walked in the door, the first thing he said was "I didn't know they let short, black women scrub in for surgery" and then he kicked me out of his OR room because he is "not there to teach".

I am amazed he still has a job. That comment was tasteless, and illegal, and if peer pressure hadn't gotten to him surely the lawyers would.

[WitchyRN]

Originally Posted by aquarius1

Someone mentioned about my hospital's policy regarding abusive surgeon, I did check on it through the hospital intranet and surprisingly found none...is this unusual for any hospital not to have a policy on how to deal with abusive surgeons? Or is it just my hospital?
Thank you again.

The last hospital I worked at, we had a policy about "disruptive" surgeons. This pretty much meant abuse, ie verbal abuse, ridiculing, throwing things etc. You could report the doctor in question to the medical director and if the doc was a repeat offender, he/she would be sent to counseling(anger management etc). They classified this a "hostile work environment".

The hospital I'm in now has something similar and also has a union. I wouldn't let this surgeon get away with abusing you though. If this means you fill out an incident report every time, then so be it. Sooner or later, someone will take notice. I think they have policies like this because unfortunately, this kind of behavior can be common with doctors. You should hear the stories some of the older nurses tell. I'm talking nurses and techs being hit, slapped, called vulgar names and being sexually harrassed on a daily basis(groping etc).

Usually the phrase "hostile working environment" works wonders.

[Hopefull2009]

I would ask to speak to hiim one day after the surgical day is over, privately.

Tell him that you love your job, you liked working with him (a lie, but sometimes it helps to eat crow), however, that you have to be honest in staying that being screamed at and degraded during a surgical procedure in front of your coworkers is unprofessional...that you treat him with respect as the physician/surgeon, and expect the same in return.

What he says NEXT will tell you how you need to proceed.

I personally, don't give a rats behind about someone's culture as giving them a pass on how people act in the workplace...if they are working here, then they have been in America long enough to understand what social graces are.

HOWEVER, with that said, make absolutely sure, that nothing that he has yelled at you for happened during a critical moment during surgery. I can also understand where a surgeon would "lose it" when everyone is "business as usual" and something happens where he needs everyone around him to work as optimum speed in order to protect the client--b/c in his mind the clock is racing and seconds are seemingly eternal.

To me that just comes with the territory, and something like that I wouldn't take personally.

After all, it's him that is most likely to get sued if something goes wrong.

[surgigaltheatre]

As the Scrub RN in theatre I believe that I am just as important as the surgeon, we need each other to get the work done. I, from my side, do everything expected of me, to ensure that all he will need, is availablel. If I have done something wrong, I will accept, and appologize. I will not be abused by any one!! I have had many bouts with surgeons who try to throw their weight around, and have found that if you stand up for yourself, they usually back down!! I believe that there should be respect between both the surgeon and Scrub person!! It is vital that each hospital has a system which protects its workers against this type of abuse, and all should know how to activate and use this system!! Greetings from a sunny South Africa!!

[WitchyRN]

Originally Posted by Hopefull2009

I would ask to speak to hiim one day after the surgical day is over, privately.

Tell him that you love your job, you liked working with him (a lie, but sometimes it helps to eat crow), however, that you have to be honest in staying that being screamed at and degraded during a surgical procedure in front of your coworkers is unprofessional...that you treat him with respect as the physician/surgeon, and expect the same in return.

What he says NEXT will tell you how you need to proceed.

I personally, don't give a rats behind about someone's culture as giving them a pass on how people act in the workplace...if they are working here, then they have been in America long enough to understand what social graces are.

HOWEVER, with that said, make absolutely sure, that nothing that he has yelled at you for happened during a critical moment during surgery. I can also understand where a surgeon would "lose it" when everyone is "business as usual" and something happens where he needs everyone around him to work as optimum speed in order to protect the client--b/c in his mind the clock is racing and seconds are seemingly eternal.

To me that just comes with the territory, and something like that I wouldn't take personally.

After all, it's him that is most likely to get sued if something goes wrong.

I agree with most of your post except the part about lawsuits..these days anyone involved with the case in question will get sued. Surgeons will also throw you under the bus to save their own hide. This is why I document within an inch of my life on the OR record, and I carry my own malpractice insurance.(despite the fact that my hospital doesn't want us to have it) CYA is my new motto!

[brewerpaul]

I'm thinking maybe a towel clamp down where the sun don't shine might get the message across...

[Marie_LPN]

Originally Posted by brewerpaul

I'm thinking maybe a towel clamp down where the sun don't shine might get the message across...

A Jacob's tenaculum gets the "point" across w/ the risk of contaminating yourself, though....

[Vikingkitten]

Originally Posted by Scrubby

[This can be a diificult situation to deal with because of the "culture" of OR nursing that has stuck around for years. Many of the older nurses in my hospital tolerate the abuse. Obviously, this sort of behavior should not be tolerated by anyone.]

I completely agree. We have the exact same problem, the older nurses just seem to take the abuse (it's just normal for them), they let newbies be demoralised in front of the entire OR team and it's quite sad really....

I can be fairly forgiving, if it's a surgeon who is being a bit snappy because he is under pressure then that's fine, we all have these moments. But if it's just outright abuse then NO it's not right.

I have found that a simple 'I don't appreciate being spoken to in this manner' or a 'your behaviour is out of line, do not speak to me like that' to work quite well. It usually shuts them up and they soon realise that i'm not a martyr and can stick up for myself. If you just put up with it then they know that they can get away with what they are doing.

If they start screaming at me and throw instruments around (thankfully this doesn't happen too often) then I get my scout to call the team leader and have the floor senior in there to sort them out. If my scout refuses out of fear of the surgeon then i would tell them that the team leader needs to come in or i have to unscrub. This may seem extreme (and even like abandonment) but for the sake of my mental and physical health (increased risk of sharps injuries which is backed by research). And also the poor patient deserves better than an out of control surgeon operating on them, and a scrub nurse who is so demoralised that they cannot focus on what they are doing.

I think the best way to look at these sorts of problems is to remember how much hard work you put into studying to become a nurse. Did you go through all those years of study just to be someone's punching bag? Nobody deserves to be yelled at in front of their coworkers, and certainly not when your scrubbed.

I really do hope that you stick up for yourself. I really believe that unless we do speak out nursing will not advance as a profession.

I like some of your ideas for handling "difficult surgeons" AKA A**holes! I didn't allow that kind of behavior when I was runnng an OR. Matter of fact, pulled the Circ. and Scrub out of a particularly abuse ENT's room, and told him he wasn't going to get a crew back until he learned to behave. Amazing how quickly his attitude and demeanor changed, and yes, I was rolling the dice on the abandonment thing, but no way was I going to put up with that. I did promise myself, when I was a young Medic, that if I ever got into a position of authority, it wouldn't occur in my OR.
The other things we have to endure IS Supervisors that tell you, "Well, they're Doctors, you can't do anything about it." B S! I've been in many ORs where that isn't tolerated. Even had a nurse in California (who's husband was a Corporal in the CHP) had a particularly abuse Dr. who threw instruments arrested. Lead out in handcuffs and booked for Battery! Gotta love her solution!