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  #41  
Old Jul 15, 2005, 03:49 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005

Originally Posted by SmilingBluEyes

Now, I have met and worked with quite a few doctors/OBs quite skilled and comfortable for years, with breech deliveries. These guys had probably done 100s of them in their careers. Things have changed.
If homebirth with a skilled midwife was not an option for me, and I had a breech baby and a young doctor, I think I would possibly choose a cesarean delivery. Why? Because while the older docs were taught these skills and utilized them, the younger docs are NOT being taught it in the same way, and I think that makes for a much riskier breech birth. Of course, I would do everything I could to find a doc who would catch a breech, but reality being what it is, it could be much harder.

It really bugs me about how epidurals, induction, c-sec and other interventions get defended in the word of "choice", "alternative" and "non-judgement", but when a woman desires to have a breech, a VBAC or a natural birth, she often faces an uphill battle from her care providers, her nurses, her family and our society. Where is the choice based on knowledge of alternatives there? "Choice" is becoming an ever-increasing joke on many L&D floors, and it breaks my heart.

I continue to recognize that this frustrates and burns out many nurses as well, and to be fair, there are docs who are simply disgusted by the path ACOG and some of their fellow physicians are taking to encourage elective c-section and discourage VBAC. I feel for them, especially when their options are also cut off by insurance companies.

Alison

And thanks for the well-wishes on the birth!

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  #42  
Old Jul 15, 2005, 03:52 PM
SmilingBluEyes's Avatar
SmilingBluEyes (Female)
Temper-MENTAL Redhead
Join Date: Apr 2002

It's not easy for any of us. Like I said, you have the insurance industry, lawyers and a lottery-playing mentality out there to thank. Hospitals can't afford this anymore, nor can doctors and nurses.

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  #43  
Old Jul 15, 2005, 04:11 PM
SmilingBluEyes's Avatar
SmilingBluEyes (Female)
Temper-MENTAL Redhead
Join Date: Apr 2002

Originally Posted by judyblueeyes
Man, I'm new- our names are so similar. Can I change mine so we don't get confused?
you will have to ask the mods this one. I have no idea if you can. If you do it may decrease confusion-----this has been my nickname for 3 years now.

Oh and welcome to allnurses, judy!!!

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  #44  
Old Jul 15, 2005, 04:44 PM
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2003

Originally Posted by HeartsOpenWide
I find this statement so sad. So if a woman wanted to deliver her baby breech she "wouldn't be allowed to" ? I think I would fight tooth and nail if I had a breech baby that would not turn to vaginally deliver my breech baby. I've seen wounderful breech babies come out, and at home births.
I relise what a fight it can be though. My MIL had an "oops" pregnancy almost three years ago (well the delivery was almost three years ago) NO ONE in this area would deliver her twins without a section. We had to wait until an OB from out of the area that comes up once a month to come. She then, agains her normal standards, relucted to induction so she could have the babys vaginally while this OB was still in the area. Baby A was head down, but baby B was transvers (this is why no one wanted to deliver her) as soon as twin A was out twin B had enough room and in a matter of 5 mins she had turned. Of course we were all happy. MIL said she almost wished she could have defeted the challenge of a breech, being that this OB would have allowed at least a trial.
Breech vaginal births carry a higher risk of injury to the baby.

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  #45  
Old Jul 15, 2005, 06:11 PM
SmilingBluEyes's Avatar
SmilingBluEyes (Female)
Temper-MENTAL Redhead
Join Date: Apr 2002

Originally Posted by BETSRN
Breech vaginal births carry a higher risk of injury to the baby.
indeed they do, as a result of dystocia. I agree---I did discuss this on the previous page for anyone who is interested in seeing that.

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  #46  
Old Jul 15, 2005, 08:27 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005

The only time I have ever seen a request granted for an elective c/s was for a prime who's reasoning was that her mother had bladder problems after giving birth. I was absolutely shocked that the insurance company would pay for that. After reading this forum I'm getting the impression it's not that uncommon. As for the elective induction rise I'm surprised insurance companies (and those of us who pay for insurance) are paying for a higher cost to delivery considering the cost that is involved in putting a woman into labor. I must admit though with the way staffing is being cut at my hospital it is to the nurses benefit to have labor by appoinment. At least we get staffed for that. The new trends are a shame.

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  #47  
Old Jul 16, 2005, 01:59 AM
ftr_bb_catchr's Avatar
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Join Date: Jun 2005

Originally Posted by subee
Maybe its time we did put change on our agendas. I find OBGYN's to be pretty much under the thumbs of the patients. 45 year primips are allowed to labor "for the experience" and the c-section goes at 10 p.m. so we can get the patient out of the OR before we have to use the night call team. No one can have a baby anymore without a garden hose in her back. Giving birth used to be such a growth experience for women - it definitely helped your self-esteem that you were able to experience some short-term pain (nothing like the pain, however, that a snotty teenager will give you later).
Kowtowing to so many ridiculous, expensive patient demands is just a form of whoring. Lets give labor and delivery back where it belongs - to the midwives.
Your last sentence alone makes me want to just KISS YOU!!! Lord bless you for saying what I would have.

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  #48  
Old Jul 16, 2005, 02:05 AM
ftr_bb_catchr's Avatar
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Join Date: Jun 2005

AND P.S. Why on earth, barring some medical emergency or physical problem, which I completely sympathize with by the way, would someone want to have surgery when you can push that baby out yourself? I for one thought birth was wonderful and would have been really sad had I not been able to be an active, pushing participant.

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  #49  
Old Jul 16, 2005, 07:43 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004

here's another thought: no one has mentioned (at least not noticed by me during my skim through of this set of postings, so if someone did, my heartiest apology and a hug) the fact that a single cesarean (elective, emergency, repeat- any cesarean) carries with it a risk of fetal death/stillbirth with subsequent pregnancies.

Just another thought to throw into the brew.
For the record, I am intrigued by the shift in women's attitudes. Having been around in the 70's and 80's I remember (and was part of) the struggles for natural birth and hands-off-- now it seems that for some the tide of feminism has turned to an encouragement for more technology- both having the same foundation in 'it's my body/baby'.
just some thoughts to muddle over.

a lovely day to all....

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  #50  
Old Jul 16, 2005, 08:52 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004

Originally Posted by SmilingBluEyes
National csection rate is 50%? I thought it was more like 26%. Where did you get that figure, out of curiosity? (not trying to start a debate, but I am really behind the times if these rates are that high). Thanks in advance for any info you can provide me.
26% of Births in City Are Caesarean Deliveries, Study Says

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/ny.../13child.html?

Here's an article on C-section rates in the NYT just a couple of days ago. I pasted and copied, i





By MARC SANTORA
Published: July 13, 2005

The number of Caesarean section births performed at hospitals in New York City varies greatly, with the average well above the recommendations of the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, according to a report to be issued today by the city's public advocate. New York is keeping pace with the national increase in the number of Caesarean sections, which accounted for more than a million births nationwide since 2003, five times more than in 1980.

The procedure, in which the baby is delivered through an incision in the mother's abdomen or uterus, was performed on 27 percent of women in the United States who gave birth, according to data compiled by the federal Department of Health and Human Services.

In New York City, 26.4 percent of women had Caesarean deliveries in 2003, and statewide the rate was 28.4 percent, said Betsy Gotbaum, the public advocate.

A survey of 44 hospitals by Ms. Gotbaum's office found that nine had Caesarean rates greater than 30 percent. NewYork-Presbyterian/Weill Cornell had the highest rate of such deliveries, 37.3 percent."There is a tremendous risk" in conducting such surgeries unnecessarily, Ms. Gotbaum said in an interview, adding that it was clear that the trend was going in the wrong direction.A representative of NewYork-Presbyterian/Weill Cornell said the hospital performed many high-risk births, which helped account for its relatively high rate of Caesarean sections.But Ms. Gotbaum cited reports by the Centers for Disease Control and the World Health Organization recommending that surgery be used only in cases in which a vaginal birth would put the health of the mother or the baby at risk. Such a standard, the groups said, would help reduce the rate of Caesarean sections to the 15 percent they recommend.Hospitals are required to provide data on the number of Caesarean sections they perform to patients who request it, under a 1989 state law, the Maternity Information Act. When the law was adopted, it was hailed as the first comprehensive effort in the nation to curb unnecessary operations. In the years after the law was passed, rates in New York did drop, but in recent years they have again begun to climb.

Ms. Gotbaum blamed the New York State Health Department for not following through on monitoring the issue.The deputy health commissioner, William Van Slyke, said the department compiled the data as quickly as possible and passed the information along to hospitals. But ultimately, he said, the hospitals were responsible for providing the data to patients.The law contains no punitive measure that could compel a hospital to provide the information. Mr. Van Slyke said he was aware that the number of Caesarean deliveries had been rising in recent years, but said he saw no reason for alarm.The surgery has been used for years and is widely considered the best choice for a mother whose health is at risk. Some obstetricians contend that it is as safe as a vaginal birth and that if a woman prefers surgery, she should be allowed to choose that option. There are several reasons that a woman might elect a Caesarean birth, including the convenience of advance scheduling.Some advocates, however, worry that hospitals are overusing the procedure. They cite the fact that in 1970, only 7 percent of babies were born by Caesarean section.Maureen Corry, the executive director of the Maternity Center Association, a national nonprofit advocacy group for pregnant women, said her group analyzed some 300 studies. "Bottom line, without a doubt, unless there is a clear compelling medical need for a C-section or assisted vaginal birth, the evidence shows that vaginal birth is the safest way for women to give birth," she said. There are many reasons that hospitals might benefit from surgery, she said."I think malpractice has a lot to do with it," she said. "Nobody ever sues a provider for doing an unnecessary C-section."Hospitals stand to reap a bigger profit by performing surgery and having the patient stay in the hospital for several days, she said.It is also easier, administratively, to perform a Caesarean section because the birth can be scheduled.Another factor for the increase may be that fewer women later deliver a baby vaginally after having done so by a Caesarean section, said Dr. Bruce Flamm, a medical professor at the University of California, Irvine.He said this alone made it unlikely that Caesarean rates would decline to the level of two decades ago. He also said he believed that part of the reason for the increase was that more women wanted the procedure.

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