[dhigbee]

Somehow the posts that I was responding to disappeared. What I mean by the post above was it's probably healthier for one's psyche to stay away from the student doctor forums.

Originally Posted by dhigbee

I'm just not sure it's worse the pain and frustration of endlessly reading these posts. It's important to know that these attitudes are out there, but don't let your practice or your self-image be influenced by them. Continue providing the care that only you can provide, and continue growing in knowledge and excellence.

Dana

[Tammy79, RN]

Originally Posted by dhigbee

Somehow the posts that I was responding to disappeared. What I mean by the post above was it's probably healthier for one's psyche to stay away from the student doctor forums.

You are absolutely right. When I take a step back, I now just see it as nothing more than hate speech provided by those who have never touched a patient and are sure to be faced with serious problems when they do.

[straba]

• Translation and Synthesis of Evidence for Optimal Outcomes
• Quantitative Research Methods
• Epidemiology and Environmental Health
• Legal and Ethical Issues
• Clinical Genomics Advanced Seminar
• Practice Management
• Informatics

Do they really think I would pay good money (not to mention the time investment) for a ciriculum like this? And this is going to enhance my practice how? I thought this was a CLINICAL Doctorate

[Joan Z]

Thank you for the thoughtful and well-organized reply, markdanurse.

I won't try to comment point-by-point on your reply. I would like to say that it is much easier to change (I would say mess with) the advanced practice requirements as opposed to the entry-level requirements--simply due to the numbers of practitioners involved. There is national support by patients and providers for the RN, who provides a well-known service whatever his/her education. In contrast, the APRN is not so well-known.

I will be the first to admit that I do not know a lot of NPs who are only in practice; however, I have not met one who has expressed support for the idea of the DNP. In my MSN program--which, when I started, was a terminal degree--the faculty (including some licensed NPs) seemed much more enthusiastic about the DNP even while being somewhat confused as to what advantages it would incur.

Much as I will do anything to support nurses and nursing, I have a very hard time with this concept. I do not see how I am to benefit, or how my profession is to benefit (other than some schools making some big $ off increased revenues). The fact that this program was "voted" to be the entry degree to practice by 2015, without a guarantee or plan for program availability, boggles my mind.

Joan

[inthesky]

As a prospective NP student, I am definitely discouraged by the DNP requirement. Arizona has discontinued the masters NP programs and I can't move. I can't afford out-of-state tuition and the few online programs that charge in-state don't have psychiatric specialties. I do think the extra DNP curriculum is too general and includes a lot of stuff I don't care about. Right now, I am desperate to get out of floor nursing after only 6 months. I'm also not thrilled with doing a full-time online program. What ever happened to a classroom? At heart, I'm a bit of an academic nerd, so I'm destined for more school =P

[SarasotaRN2b]

Whew! 51 pages and only 1 that I saw going for the NNP. My question is that is this DNP for all NP programs or for the FNP programs? From the research I've done so far, before even getting into the clinical portion of the NNP, we need at least two years experience in a NICU with at least one year in a level III. The masters program at Rush (my first choice) is 68 credits....that is a lot more than the 30 or so hours for an FNP. If a DNP is required for the NNP, I'm looking at increasing my clinical knowledge to take care of these little ones...any NNPs that can comment?

Kris

[sirI]

Originally Posted by SarasotaRN2b

Whew! 51 pages and only 1 that I saw going for the NNP. My question is that is this DNP for all NP programs or for the FNP programs? From the research I've done so far, before even getting into the clinical portion of the NNP, we need at least two years experience in a NICU with at least one year in a level III. The masters program at Rush (my first choice) is 68 credits....that is a lot more than the 30 or so hours for an FNP. If a DNP is required for the NNP, I'm looking at increasing my clinical knowledge to take care of these little ones...any NNPs that can comment?

Kris

If DNP becomes the terminal degree, it will apply to all levels of APN: CNM, NP, CNS, CRNA; not just to individual specialty areas for the NP.

[BBFRN]

Originally Posted by straba

• Translation and Synthesis of Evidence for Optimal Outcomes
• Quantitative Research Methods
• Epidemiology and Environmental Health
• Legal and Ethical Issues
• Clinical Genomics Advanced Seminar
• Practice Management
• Informatics

Do they really think I would pay good money (not to mention the time investment) for a ciriculum like this? And this is going to enhance my practice how? I thought this was a CLINICAL Doctorate

You are probably not going to be able to avoid taking research-based courses, nor statistical analysis courses for any doctoral program- clinical or not. Courses like these are the cornerstone of doctoral ed. everywhere. As for the others, they seem pretty useful to me.

[mark2climb]

BBFRN,

Shouldn't most of these courses be covered in a MSN already? I would think that an APN at the Master's level should already be able to utilize research, do research, and have some understanding of computers. Tthese courses would benefit someone in a PhD program but I think the problem is that many DNP programs claim to be more clinically focused. How do these courses contribute to actual clinical knowledge? Why not make the program more like a residency or fellowship with mostly clinical time at the bedside with conferences throughout the week, like real graduate medical education to give real physiologic or pharmacologic knowledge for patient care.

Originally Posted by BBFRN

You are probably not going to be able to avoid taking research-based courses, nor statistical analysis courses for any doctoral program- clinical or not. Courses like these are the cornerstone of doctoral ed. everywhere. As for the others, they seem pretty useful to me.

Originally Posted by straba

• Translation and Synthesis of Evidence for Optimal Outcomes
• Quantitative Research Methods
• Epidemiology and Environmental Health
• Legal and Ethical Issues
• Clinical Genomics Advanced Seminar
• Practice Management
• Informatics

Do they really think I would pay good money (not to mention the time investment) for a ciriculum like this? And this is going to enhance my practice how? I thought this was a CLINICAL Doctorate

[JDCitizen]

End result educators no clinicians doing the planning. More padding: more money and more job security.

• Translation and Synthesis of Evidence for Optimal Outcomes Someone’s job security
• Quantitative Research Methods Someone’s job security
• Epidemiology and Environmental Health I lean to someone’s job security but might be good
• Legal and Ethical Issues I lean to someone’s job security but might be good
• Clinical Genomics Advanced Seminar What is this?
• Practice Management I lean to someone’s job security but might be good
• Informatics Someone’s job security

Unless the programs are clinically based with a increased emphasis on what really matters: Pharmacology, A&P, increased clinical hours… If it's supposed to be a clinical program make it a clinical program...


Here is one 4 year degree example of a doctor in medicine (invented especially to supply doctors for rural health care):
Year 1 & 2
- Biomedical Problems Program (basic medical sciences are learned through the study of clinical problems).
- Fundamentals of Clinical Practice Program (includes the Clinical Skills course, the Medical Ethics course, and the Community Office Practice course).
- Community Medicine Program (This program is designed to familiarize students with concepts of population-based medicine and the application of these concepts in primary care settings in rural and underserved areas of Georgia. In the first year, students learn about the basic concepts in the Population-Based Medicine course. The students then apply these concepts by completing a project during a two-week visit to a rural community practice during Community Science 1. During year two, students take a course in Biostatistics and the application of biostatics in the Evidence-Based Medicine course, followed by another 4 week project to apply community-based and evidence-based principles in the community in Community Science 2. Following the third year clerkships, the students return to the same practice for four weeks to complete their learning in population-based medicine in Community Science 4).

Year 3
Service-based clerkships:
Internal Medicine (12 weeks), Surgery (8 weeks), Psychiatry (6 weeks), Pediatrics (8 weeks), Family Medicine (8 weeks), and Obstetrics and Gynecology (6 weeks). Concurrently, there are ongoing seminars in radiology and ethics.

Year 4
..program includes a required experience in Emergency Medicine (4 weeks); a choice of “selectives” (6 weeks) which includes Critical Care, Substance Abuse, and Surgical Subspecialties; and 20 weeks of elective experiences. Students may choose to take up to 12 weeks of electives at other medical schools. Unscheduled time is provided for residency interviews. Year IV includes the final Community Science experience in an outlining practice setting. The Year IV program is intended to allow students to round out their clinical training experience while exploring different specialties as career options.

Wow looks like everything has a clinical focus, what a concept...