[meandragonbrett]

Originally Posted by LilPeanut

My concern is that there is a nursing shortage to begin with and making it even longer and more difficult to get new blood in there will turn off people who are looking at nursing as a second career. I mean, I'm in a direct entry graduate program, and if I had to first get my masters and then my PhD in nursing, that would likely alter my decision to become an NP, just because we can't afford to have me in school for that long.

This will not be a PhD in nursing. A PhD is a research grounded doctorate. The proposal that is being made is for a clinical doctorate (specifically the DNP). Also, if I remember correctly, one will not do a masters program, but simply the doctoral program to become an APRN (Don't quote me on this). Another thing to think about...how many years has this group been pushing for this and to make the BSN entry-level? MANY years. I honestly don't see it happening. On one front it's a good thing, but on the other we could be serving ourselves crow.

[Finally2003NP-C]

The AACN can dictate the new "doctorate for entry into advanced practice" until they are blue in the face. Half the country cannot agree upon ADN or BSN as to entry into registered nursing.... So now you want to up the ante for advanced practice? There are bigger fish to fry! Sounds like another issue to muddy the already muddied waters! Also, what are we going to do with all those "Masters prepared advanced practice nurses" hmmmmmm..... Do I hear a grandfather clause, or will it be a forced return to academia to get the honored doctorate sheepskin?

[rhp123]

Originally Posted by Averykat

"The Practice Doctorate is designed for nurses seeking a terminal degree in nursing practice, and offers an alternative to research focused doctoral programs (i.e. PhD programs). Though only a handful of practice doctorates currently exist, more than a dozen new programs are taking shape nationwide, and several have expressed interest in seeking accreditation."



Does anyone know what schools offer this program now?

-Kate

As far as I remember, columbia university has one, there is a school in colorado has one (u. or colorado or Colorado state, I cannot remember). Check their websites.

[Traveler]

I believe East Tennessee State University does.

My big question with this whole debate is why. Assuming that a nurse first gets their BSN. The last 2 years in school is spent on nursing. If they go on to get their MSN that is another year and a half to two years. That is 3.5-4 years in school just for nursing. A doctor spends four years in medical school since the first 4 years is just general ed. If this requirement comes to be, APRN's would have more medical education than doctors.

[sharann]

I have just read about this in Nursing 2005 and I am disgusted. What is wrong with these people up there in their ivory towers? A DSN to be a NP? What's next? Maybe they should require a BS degree for nursing asistants and a Masters for unit secretary. It seems that they want to have nurses use the title "Doctor". Why are they cometing with the M.D's? No matter what we will be called we are still nurses! We should be proud of that. It makes me re-think my desire to pursue the MSN after I complete my BSN(or should I just drop it now?)

[*PICURN*]

When do you think this will all come into effect?

I'm planning to enroll in an ADN-BSN-MSN program to become an NP starting next year (Jun 2006)

Anyone know if this is going to take awhile to come into effect?

[VickyRN]

Originally Posted by *PICURN*

When do you think this will all come into effect?

I'm planning to enroll in an ADN-BSN-MSN program to become an NP starting next year (Jun 2006)

Anyone know if this is going to take awhile to come into effect?

This is just the AACN's *proposal*. It may never come into effect, due to sheer impracticality and the fact that we are in the worst nursing shortage since WWII! After talking to my advisor, who is the head of the graduate nursing department at my university (very large, state run nursing program), she did not sound too thrilled about these proposed changes. They have enough problems finding faculty and students for most of the masters programs. Many of the faculty teaching in these programs only have masters! The idea of DOCTORATE for NPs and other APRNs will face enormous opposition and will probably never get off the ground.

[jtriggy]

Pending state approval...forever?

[FNP/DNP]

Originally Posted by LilPeanut

My concern is that there is a nursing shortage to begin with and making it even longer and more difficult to get new blood in there will turn off people who are looking at nursing as a second career. I mean, I'm in a direct entry graduate program, and if I had to first get my masters and then my PhD in nursing, that would likely alter my decision to become an NP, just because we can't afford to have me in school for that long.

I am new to this forum and I have a Doctor of Nursing Practice from Rush University as a Nurse Practitioner. The new position statement is declaring that by the year 2015 all NP's will have to have this. I believe there will be some grandfathering in to those with master's degrees. Some of the schools moving to this are Columbia, Case Western, Purdue University, Unviversity of Tennesee, among others. I personally feel that this is a good move, I think it is hard to get all of the needed information at the master's level. That is just my personal opinion. I realize there is a nursing shortage, but there is NOT a nurse practitioner shortage. There are way too many programs (300) and many NP's are having a tough time getting a job because supply is greater than demand.

I think they are pushing this due to the graying of faculty with doctorates- it is an alternative to the PHD (much less of a time committment). I teach both undergrads and NP's and find the degree works well for me. I need to maintain a practice and cannot commit to a PhD program while teaching and practicing. You would bypass the master's degree. Check these programs out- I think you will like them. I felt very prepared when I graduated- wouldn't change a thing! If you have any questions please contact me- I have been very interested in the new developments!

[Snoopd]

I understand the importance of education as it relates to competency of practice and personal fulfillment, but how much more could someone expect to earn with a doctorate in nursing? We work in an industry that rewards a BSN with an extra dollar over an ADN, and a Masters can expect to get a dollar more that a BSN. Pocket change, it's insulting. Can our profession make a doctorate financially rewarding? I don't think so. The universities offering these programs will enrich themselves. It also means job security and possibly job creation for instructors, but how financially rewarding will it be for the degree seeker? Are you going to earn $200,000 or $300,000 as a "doctor of nursing"? Of course not. You'll have your fancy little title and degree and will be working in an industry that can't possibly provide you with the compensation that should accompany that many extra years in school. On the CBS news they had an employment story about what the in demand jobs are. The biggest group of these jobs were technical ADN type trades such as electricians, construction, and of course ADN nurses. These positions paid more than most 4 year degree "white collar" jobs. What's the point? One needs to be in demand to receive a higher level of compensation. It's not the degree, it's the public's demand, and the public's perception of the service that they are receiving, that create financial value and compensation for the practitioner of that trade or expertise. As the news story said - "for 50 years people have been told to go to college and get a 4 year degree" but now we have millions of people with 4 year degrees (they are a dime a dozen, what high school grads were 30-40 years ago) who have crummy "cubicle" jobs and mountains of student loans. I don't think that there is a financial "floor" that can support or justify a nation-wide requirement to get a doctorate to be a NP or CRNA. Snoopd.

Originally Posted by Finally2003NP-C

The AACN can dictate the new "doctorate for entry into advanced practice" until they are blue in the face. Half the country cannot agree upon ADN or BSN as to entry into registered nursing.... So now you want to up the ante for advanced practice? There are bigger fish to fry! Sounds like another issue to muddy the already muddied waters! Also, what are we going to do with all those "Masters prepared advanced practice nurses" hmmmmmm..... Do I hear a grandfather clause, or will it be a forced return to academia to get the honored doctorate sheepskin?