[brownrice]

Hey Josh:
For a sample of what an integrative practice can do, search for kahala natural health center on the web. This is a Naturopathic Doctor who also has an acupunture license, which was not earned in 200 hours, but the real way! Her practice in Hawaii is very successful, but....

In my opinion, being an NP would be an even better mix. You are then bridging Eastern and Western philosophy...how powerful! And, you carry more credibility with the folks involved in the existing standard, Western Medicine.

I would encourage it.

[Papadoc]

Originally Posted by brownrice

Hey Josh:
For a sample of what an integrative practice can do, search for kahala natural health center on the web. This is a Naturopathic Doctor who also has an acupunture license, which was not earned in 200 hours, but the real way! Her practice in Hawaii is very successful, but....

In my opinion, being an NP would be an even better mix. You are then bridging Eastern and Western philosophy...how powerful! And, you carry more credibility with the folks involved in the existing standard, Western Medicine.

I would encourage it.

Hey Brownrice!
I'm glad you've mentioned the great State of Hawaii, because it's the only State in the nation that doesn't let other professions to sneak in the licensed profession of Acupuncture through the back door. So good for the N.D who had to sweat just like everybody else to earn their degree. I wish that most States would adopt such a hard line. It really serves and protects the public.
I for one couldn't just take 200 hours home-video instruction in medicine or surgery (no tests, no licensing exam) and just practice it.The problem is that many ppl who are involved in the law-making take the reductionistic approach to the whole Orintal Medicine complex, treatin it like a "modality" to "complement" the existing Western medical model.That view, by and large, is being pedaled by AMA and such. It's very frustrating for us in the profession, how everybody is trying to rip it to shreads, by some turf war, to make a few quick bucks.And the OM movement itself is deeply devided in this country, and does not have a unified voice.
As for Josh getting into the Western medical model by all means do NP,although, if you ask me...If I haven't been an RN already, I'll just go straight for PA. Please don't flame me.I'm an RN myself, but to get your NP will take you 4-5 yrs (gotto have RN first), PA is 2-3yrs, and very much "get to the point" thing.
Anyway, it's your call.
Goodluck

[Josh L.Ac.]

Thanks for the replies. In my home state of Kansas (where I am moving back to in June for school), MDs/DOs can get licensed by the state to do acupuncture with no training, while the state doesn't license real acupuncturists. Oh, and DCs can practice with 100 hours of training. After I graduated from Bastyr university, I did an internship in China, where I had the pleasure of witnessing a group of medical acupuncturists completing their 200 clinical hours. Now the Chinese seem to be all about pain when it comes to getting acupuncture, but these poor folks were the first people that the MDs had ever needled. The MDs didn't even practice on each other during their intensive 100 hour courses! After word got around the hospital, we had to get our translators to tell the patients that we were supposed to treat that we were not MDs and actual acupuncturists. But hey, I guess the MDs are sold the whole medical acupuncture idea so why would they question it? [/off topic]

Anyway, I am going the NP route for several reasons...and it should only take 3 1/2 years (1 year accelerated BSN, 2 1/2 years NP program). I looked into several PA programs, and while they looked a little higher speed in terms of didactic and clinical requirements, the NP degree should give me more autonomy to practice how I think I should practice. But I could always be wrong.

[BSNDec06]

Originally Posted by Papadoc

Hey Brownrice!
but to get your NP will take you 4-5 yrs (gotto have RN first), PA is 2-3yrs, and very much "get to the point" thing.
Goodluck

This was my major consideration in going back to school to be an NP instead of a PA. Many PA programs require that you quit your job to complete the program, and this was not an option for my husband and I because of our mortgage, etc. Going the NP route is taking longer (1 year prerequisites, 16 months BSN, 1 year of nursing, and then 2 years of grad school for NP). However, I am able to work and pay my bills in the meantime. I was only 24 years old when I started, so time wasn't a major consideration for me.

I never took into consideration whether being an NP was better than a PA or vice versa, because everyone I've talked to has told me that either route would get me to my goal. I believe that both NPs and PAs are excellent clinicians (I have experience with both), and it is in our best interest to work together to promote our mutual interests.

[imisscoco]

I will graduate in June with my Master's in Nursing, and this summer will sit for both the Adult Primary Care Boards and Geriatrics, and hopefully I will pass both and be dual certified as an NP. I have been an RN for 30 years this summer. There are 45 students in my class. All have at least BSNs and none have been RNs for less than 5 years, most longer. PAs and NPs alike practice the medical model. It's just the way it is. And both are supervised by physicians. People come into each profession through different doors. Don't kid yourself. There are GEP programs (graduate entry pathways) for NPs now, where in 3 years you can become an RN, then NP. I thought this was a terrible idea, until I met some of the students in the GEP program at my university. Some GEP students have maturity and life experiences that make them better practitioners than nurses in the traditional programs who have been practicing for years. And some don't. It all depends on the individual, and the program. My program wants us to think that NPs practice in a nursing model. My preceptors have been very upfront with us and have told us the truth, which I am finding in my clinicals this year, and we are indeed practicing in a medical model. There are good NPs and PAs and bad ones. Practice with integrity, whatever you do, whichever path you choose, but come together as health care professionals, value what we have in common, and stop nitpicking the differences. I am sick to death of this argument.

[SuzanaS]

Emory University accepts students from biology majors as well as other non-medical fields and this is one of the best PA programs in the country, or at least in the South. I have looked at both PA and NP programs there and decided that NP was more appropriate choice for me personally. I know for a fact that NP's have more independance than PA's, and yes, there are clinics and practices run by NP's with a physician not present at that location. I am very proud to be a nurse. I was a pre-med student and my 1st degree was biology major/chemistry minor. However, I decided to go to school to become an RN instead, because I love what we stand for and what we do. Being NP will enable me to work closely with physicians and advance my knowledge and practice without compromising that which I love most - being a nurse!

[Paranurse77]

The length of this thread interested me, and I thought I'd throw my two cents in.

I'm currently an ABSN student, former career Firefighter/Paramedic. Lotsa lame letters after my name.. boring..

To anyone considering a PA or NP, I would have to argue for the NP route solely based on the intense lobbying of the nursing community. I thought about PA school long and hard, it's a route many paramedics often take. The entire PA education was based on the knowledge and respect of former military Corpsman/Medics returning from Vietnam who did not have a comparable career to return home to. That's what is used to be..... Now one could easily argue that it has become the "med school drop-out" option, with many students entering with questionable prior medical experience... i.e. fresh out of school, lame volunteering experience, B.S. in Biology...yawn...

Yeah, some PA's/students will be angry at this post.. But believe me I know PA's/ PA students, came from a big PA state, (Michigan), and have examined the career thoughly... Regardless of what has been said about the growth of the PA profession... The AAPA is up against the battle hardenend, large in number, angry, academic nurse nazi's which are influencing government and health care policy. Best of luck to the AAPA and all my PA friends.. They really aren't very nice...

NP... it's the way to go... Why??? Numbers and lobbying.. Good or bad the nursing community is well organized, powerful, and the nursing schools are handing NP degrees out like they're candy... Rather disappointing, honestly... Most NP programs do not require or waive the GRE, have low GPA requirements <3.0-3.25, have part-time or internet...INTERNET...really you are going to be a prescribing medications to REAL patients...INTERNET CLASSES!!!! And with the new B.S./B.A. to MSN programs have become very watered down... But hey, you get to wear a lab coat to work... classy..

One only needs to look at the new DrNP program at Columbia to see (Columbia requires the GRE and decent grades/experience) where and how the plan to expand NP's and the entire field of nursing is progressing.... Like it or not the NP field is expanding rapidly and aggressively. As the saying goes... if you can't beat em, join em.

Of course if the DrNP is going to be the new standard... maybe MD or DO doesn't look so bad anymore...

[zenman]

Originally Posted by Paranurse77

Most NP programs do not require or waive the GRE

IMO the GRE and all other college entrance exams are money making schemes. If someone has the GPA to get into a certain program they should be allowed in. I think my GRE for MSN was around 800 but I made almost a 4.0 for the program. Same for my MBA; I waited till I was in the program before I took GMAT...total waste of time and money.

have part-time

Who learns the most...someone taking a full time intensive program, having to memorize reams of info and staying up all night studying or someone who goes parttime sees a few patients and then has time to review their condition and "really learn." One is going to forget half of what they learn and it's not the parttime person. Take some learning or psychology of learning courses if you don't believe me.

or internet...INTERNET...really you are going to be a prescribing medications to REAL patients...INTERNET CLASSES!!!!

I'm doing a completely online FNP program from a well respected school. Do a google search for "benefits of online courses" before you knock it. I located over 40 of them. It's for adult learners and not those who have to be spoonfeed. I've done both and anyone who has to travel and sit in class is being very inefficient. The clinical is done like any other program.

[imisscoco]

Since when don't NP schools require GRE's. Mine did, as well as all of the other programs I am aware of. I am in New England with a wealth of NP schools and I don't know of one that doesn't require them. My program does not accept anyone with a total combined score of less than 1000, the reasoning behind this is twofold. First of all, the GREs supposedly predict how well you will do in graduate school, and secondly, you have to take boards at the end and they don't want to accept students who don't have a decent chance of passing standardized tests. Right or wrong, that is the thinking.

[SuzanaS]

Originally Posted by Paranurse77

the nursing schools are handing NP degrees out like they're candy... Rather disappointing, honestly... Most NP programs do not require or waive the GRE, have low GPA requirements <3.0-3.25, have part-time or internet...INTERNET...really you are going to be a prescribing medications to REAL patients...INTERNET CLASSES!!!! And with the new B.S./B.A. to MSN programs have become very watered down... But hey, you get to wear a lab coat to work... classy..

I would have to disagree with you. NP degrees online? - Perhaps some schools offer some of the non-clinical classess online, but not the entire degree. To be honest, I am not very familiar with online degrees, because that was not something I wanted to do. Anyway, if they did give entire NP degree online, I am sure their graduates would not be able to sit for the boards for certification/licensure due to the lack of clinicals. So what would be the point?

What kind of a person would consider obtaining NP degree online (without actual clinicals) anyway? What kind of a school would offer NP degree completely online? What kind of organization would employ someone with entirely online NP degree?

As to the requirements, I had to take GRE (or there was an option of taking MCAT), there was a requirement of a minimum of 3.0 GPA (althought very competetive) and at least 1 year acute RN experience. I had to write an essey and obtain at least 3 references, both academic and professional.
This was the standard at all NP programs I considered for my education.

As far as B.A./B.S. to MSN programs, there are bridge programs offered, however the idea is that the person with B.A./B.S. would have had to take all the pre-requisites (anatomy/physiology I & II, sciences, statistics, etc.) before enrolling into the program. This would allow for them to complete BSN degree fast (accellerated program 1 1/2 years) and they usually get summer semester off to take NCLEX-RN exam and obtain license. Only then they are permitted to continue with MSN degree. This is more of a convenience for someone who knows that they want to pursue MSN than a short cut. This way, there is only 1 application and 1 school involved.