[rnhunter]

I am currently working on my master's degree (ACNP). I believe that in all states NPs must be master prepared. A PA up until I would say the last fve years graduated with a BS degree. Now both professions the standard is a Master's degree. Another area you are mistaken is that NPs CANNOT practice independently. This is not true. NPs can and have opened there own practice. I recently read that I believe in New York city a group of FNPs opened there own practice together. It is LEGAL. NPs do NOT have to have their charts signed by a physcian. That varies from institution to institution. I agree that PAs have more clinical training and more classes than NPs do. This is an area that i believe that our profession needs to improve. Another error that i must point out is that PAs have 6-10 plus years of experience in healthcare. You are mistaken. It is strongly encouraged that they have smoe healthcare experience and/or shadow a PA prior to admission. Many go directly from HS to college to PA school. I went a girl who went on to PA school directly from college. All she did was shadow a PA prior to applying. I have a tremendous amount of respect for PAs. I do not believe that a PA is better than an NP nor do i believe that an NP is better than a PA. We are both considered midlevel practitioners. In some states they are considered physcian extenders.

[Bibeau1]

Mea culpa , you are right, "compassion and empathy are aquired traits. Many appologies, I have recently witnessed people in my profession who clearly are lacking in the traits that I admire ........

Originally Posted by patnshan

I was with you until you said that nurses are ahead in the compassion thing. That is individual, and is not LEARNED!
Otherwise, I agree with everything you said. NP's do need much more clinical time, or advanced practicum, as you call it. The amount I have seen involved in many NP programs I have researched is WAY too thin to even think about being ready to practice dependently, much less independently. That is where the gripe most PA's have with the NP movement arises from. We are trained much more in the clinical aspect especially, and still have no desire to be independent. I went to mursing school and practiced as a nurse, which gives me the experience to know that being a nurse is quite helpful, but no substitute.
I appreciate your most reasonable comment, except for the empathy stuff

Pat, RN, PA-C, MPAS

[Ventjock]

Originally Posted by Bibeau1

Mea culpa , you are right, "compassion and empathy are aquired traits. Many appologies, I have recently witnessed people in my profession who clearly are lacking in the traits that I admire ........

so true.....some of the nicest ppl i know are nurses, while at the same time some ppl who i would swear are the incarnation of the anti-Christ are nurses....lol

empathy is aquired not something learned in school

this goes for all medical professions, NP, PA, MD, DO, RN, RT.......

[FurmanGirl]

MUSC has both a nursing (BSN and MSN) program and a PA program. I once asked the Dean of Nursing to help clarify the difference b/w pursuing the PA or MSN before I applied. Simply put, she told me that the PA program was written and taught from a physician's perspective. However, the nursing program is written and taught by nurses, whose philosophy is slightly different. But as far as practicing goes, there's not too much difference.

[mango-lo-maniac]

Originally Posted by FurmanGirl

MUSC has both a nursing (BSN and MSN) program and a PA program. I once asked the Dean of Nursing to help clarify the difference b/w pursuing the PA or MSN before I applied. Simply put, she told me that the PA program was written and taught from a physician's perspective. However, the nursing program is written and taught by nurses, whose philosophy is slightly different. But as far as practicing goes, there's not too much difference.

That has been my experience, too, at least in places where PAs & NPs work side-by-side.

PS Go Paladins! I'm a Furman Girl, too!

[wtbcrna]

NPs can be totally independent providers depending on their state laws. All PAs do not have prior medical training or professional certifications. I realize some of the more competitive schools might be that way, but that is not the case for all of them. All NP certifications now require an MSN. That means you have to either have a BSN prior to admission or do a combined BSN/MSN while obtaining your NP.
Also, nurse practitioner's don't usually use nursing diagnoses they use medical diagnoses just like PAs and MDs/DOs.
I think the reason that doctors sometimes prefer PAs over NPs is that they understand their schooling better, being designed as a abbreviated medical school, and they don't feel threatened by them.
I have worked w/ new NPs and new PAs they are both about the same. The philoshopies are different, but the end is usually the same. The crack about nurse practitioners not going to surgery etc.... that is because nurse practitioners are specialized per their licensure/training from the start. PAs are generalist from the start and then specialize so therefore the need to go to all the different specialities during training.

Now as far as my advise to the original poster, if you're ultimate goal is to work in ER as provider I would go the PA route.... It should hopefully be the shorter to your goal depending on how much college you have done now.

[wtbcrna]

By the way there is more than two ENP programs. I know of atleast one more at Univ of Tx Arlington.

[rvazqu6]

From what i've read in peer-reviewed/scientific journals, the clinical differences between the two fields have not been explored (at least not with methods that meets the standards of the journals). from my experience, i have NEVER had a patient be able to identify which person was the PA and which was a NP. personally, i can usually distinguish physicians from NP/PAs, but not between the latter.

Both NPs and PAs become better practitioners after years of experience. Both seem to have similar earning potentials. My surgical PA friends earn ~80K - 90K, BUT they work more than 40 hours a week (60+) so the hourly wage is probably not that different. also, nurses seem to be better organized in terms of pushing for legislation that they want. PAs need to improve in that area.

Really, the major difference that I've seen in the field (not schooling) is that nurse practioners (or advanced practice nurses) need to "specialize," while PAs do not. That is, a PA can work in a family practice office for a few years and then switch to ortho. surgery, neurology, pediatrics, or dermatology. Of course, they would need to find an MD/DO willing and able to train them to perform their tasks. You can shadow 50 different PAs and have different experiences with each due to differing laws in each state and physician preferences. Some physicians HAVE been known to "look over the shoulder" of the PA, while other PAs run their own clinics with minimal interaction with the MD/DO.

Both are exceptional fields. If you're not sure about which to pursue- shadow both for several months and see which one you're drawn to the most.
Every field has its pros/cons, but bashing each other gets us no where and it only serves to minimize the contributions made by each profession - is it any wonder NPs/PAs don't get the respect they deserve?

[DKU]

Wow!!!! Why is their so much animosity in this discussion. From looking at the PA/NP debate from a future practitioners view this debate does seem pointless as many have already pointed out. Both profession preform many of the same duties harmoniously where I live. A certain person seems to have outdated info and a predicial attitude. I have looked into both programs and I am having trouoble deciding. The last thing a prospective student needs is false info and attitude kristenwiz. If you need to be that judgemental become something else. All of the Np/Pa's that I have met are truly concerned with their patients.....Isn't that what this is all about?

[DKU]

P.S. PA schools do take many applicants without any clinical experience. The one I am interested in requires 750 hours of clincal experience. The FNP school that I am looking at requires a year of specialty nursing experience;ED or ICU on top of all other clinical experience. In this case the NP program requires at least 3x as much clincal time on top of the patho-physiology, microbiology and pharmacology coursework and experience without even mentioning the psychology and pateint relations skills required by the NP school. Other requirements are different, perhaps combining the two disciplines would be the answer. Once again, the pateint is what this is all about..if your focus is not on your pateint I feel you should be doing something else.