[Uberman5000]

Originally Posted by FutureNP10

Sounds liek a very interesting program, but I would be leary of that due to the fact that most NP's have had experience as an RN for at least 2 years prior to even going back to NP school. You may not have a little trouble getting a job because I'd figure they'd choose the NP with some type of experience versus the one that has none.
Also...not only job wise, but just for you, when becoming an NP, just so you can feel confident and comfortable with what you are doing..you might decide to go with a program that makes it mandatory for RN experience before going to NP school.

Yeah...that sounds like the politically correct way to do it but I dont feel its necessary in my instance hence I am not going to waste my time working in a hospital doing enemas for a year to get enough "experience" to do primary care in a different setting. Doesnt make any sense to me at all really.....

[Uberman5000]

Originally Posted by traumaRUs

Another thing to consider if going for a clinic position - why would a doctor want to train a new NP while not being able to see the same number of patients that an experieced NP can see? It is always the bottom line and important to consider you must perform billable services.

Hmmm, I could see the advantages to this as a business owner.....I would hire an inexperienced NP so that I could pay them less, train them and save myself some money, which is the bottom line in business. I dont understand why inexperienced NP's necessarily need to take longer with patients either thats kind of like saying that inexperience = incompetance in all cases....people learn quickly u would be surprised...

[traumaRUs]

Hi Uberman - my point was that from a business sense, a practice that hired an entry level NP (with no RN experience), would have to train you to be an RN first prior to even starting the NP training. This prolongs the orientation.

I'm just curious what part of the country do you live in? What is the demand for the entry level NP (no RN experience)? Do you have job offers in writing? I live in central IL and the job market for APN's is tight.

[sirI]

Unless you do something purposely, i.e, pulling out a gun and shooting a patient, the insurance company 99% of the time will pay, look at any malpractice policy there are stipulations regarding this type of thing. This is why you have malpractice?

OFF TOPIC:


I've seen nurses (insert title) involved in litigation. Nurses who did not carry individual malpractice insurance. They were covered under the hospital liability insurance. Remember that all liability carriers have limits of liability. The policy covered all parties (nurses) involved in the suit. The total cost of the lawsuit surpassed the limits of coverage and the nurses were required to pay out-of-pocket, the difference.

[Uberman5000]

Originally Posted by traumaRUs

Hi Uberman - my point was that from a business sense, a practice that hired an entry level NP (with no RN experience), would have to train you to be an RN first prior to even starting the NP training. This prolongs the orientation.

Hello Trauma -

I am disputing the fact that you need previous work experience in order to work as a Nurse Practitioner. Do Registered Nurses need experience to get a job as a registered nurse?

I am not disputing the fact that individuals with more experience will have a greater chance at being selected over a canidate with less experience.

The fact is that there are more and more APRN programs that do not require previous experience for entry, despite the fact that many people "dont like it". And it is also a fact that people that graduate from these jobs are able to actually get a job working as an APRN rather than first working as a registered nurse for 2 years.

Originally Posted by traumaRUs

I'm just curious what part of the country do you live in? What is the demand for the entry level NP (no RN experience)? Do you have job offers in writing? I live in central IL and the job market for APN's is tight.

I am from the east coast...There is demand for NP's and depending on the individual/institution doing the hiring new grads will be hired. Like I said, if an employer feels as though they can pay a new grad less money rather than pay someone more money that has greater expereince they may. I have plenty of friends who have gotten jobs as APRN's with NO previous experience and they are very happy. One of them works in primary care, again no RN experience and they are doing great. I dont see how RN experience would exactly help them anyway..she is more like a mini physician than anything, not like she is sitting there giving people catheters and IV's. And yes, I work in a multidisciplinary practice, primarily specializing in musculoskeletal/neuromuscular pain and I dont see how I need previous RN experience in orthopedic nursing to do what I do, I learned great information in school and I merely apply it, hence the term "practice". I did my clinicals and passed my boards....I have my license, I can do my job and do it well.

I have heard the job market is tight in IL/Chicago....some markets are very tight, Boston is a good example, its difficult to even land a decent RN job there....

[Uberman5000]

Originally Posted by siri

OFF TOPIC:


I've seen nurses (insert title) involved in litigation. Nurses who did not carry individual malpractice insurance. They were covered under the hospital liability insurance. Remember that all liability carriers have limits of liability. The policy covered all parties (nurses) involved in the suit. The total cost of the lawsuit surpassed the limits of coverage and the nurses were required to pay out-of-pocket, the difference.

Hmm, What I am referring to is the likelyhood of a single APRN being the target of a lawsuit and the phallacies and assumptions associated with that, not a lawsuit involving 20 people on a hospital ward etc......

[traumaRUs]

Advanced practice nursing - still has the "nursing" part in it. Being an RN isn't about tasks like putting in catheters and/or IVs, its about having basic assessment skils to know when someone is sick. This is the most important tenet to take from being an RN. You have to know when you are out of your league or when you need to be a strong advocate for your patient. I just don't think that entry-level to practice APNs have the assessment skills. Its not something taught in school - it comes from years of experience.

[Uberman5000]

Originally Posted by traumaRUs

Advanced practice nursing - still has the "nursing" part in it. Being an RN isn't about tasks like putting in catheters and/or IVs, its about having basic assessment skils to know when someone is sick. This is the most important tenet to take from being an RN. You have to know when you are out of your league or when you need to be a strong advocate for your patient. I just don't think that entry-level to practice APNs have the assessment skills. Its not something taught in school - it comes from years of experience.

Really? From what I understand RN's learn basic assessment skills during their undergraduate education. Things like being able to take a persons pulse, blood pressure, temperature and respirations...as well as cardiac and pulmonary ausculation...the rudimentary stuff, APRNS learn advanced physical examination procedures...neurological exams...these are psychomotor skills that as you practice, you will become better at, just like anything else in life. How many times do you need to take a blood pressure before you become proficient at it? What about a temperature reading? Do you think these skills really require decades to hone? As for the other skills, cardiac/pulmonary auscultation, palpation etc...maybe slightly longer but if you are determined you can learn them quickly...The key thing is being able to recognize something abnormal with a physical examination so that you can refer out or order further(more accurate) diagnostic testing. What about my setting, do you think I sit there listening to peoples hearts and lungs and palpating peoples spleens. diagnosing an S4 gallop w/ mitral valve prolapse like I am some kind of cardiologist? No.... Again it depends on the setting that you work in. Moreover, how much information do you usually get from a physical exam, you get much more from the history...do you think it takes someone 10 years as an RN to learn how to take a history? Come on I think you are selling alot of people short....LMOPQRST - FAOMASH - etc...As far as advocacy goes, I am not sure what I sure i follow that....If someone comes into my office and has pain I try to get them better, if i cant help them or If I feel someone else can help them better I refer out...The patient comes to me for help, i attempt to help them what do you mean "advocate" what else do you want me to do?

I understand that you dont like the idea, why are so many schools offering the option if new graduates are as incompetant as you assert?

[live_crow]

RN degrees equip people to practise as BEGINNER RN's. The only way to become experienced is to work as an RN. Read all the "First Year in Nursing" posts if you don't believe that. APRN degree equip people to work as BEGINNER APRNs. Sure, it can be done with no RN experience, however it is the harder way to do it.

The OP asked for opinions, and got them from the people "in the trenches". If you don't like them, by all means do your thing, and good luck. It's kind of pointless to think this thread is going to change your mind, or anyone else's.

[Sheri257]

Originally Posted by siri

I've seen nurses (insert title) involved in litigation. Nurses who did not carry individual malpractice insurance. They were covered under the hospital liability insurance. Remember that all liability carriers have limits of liability. The policy covered all parties (nurses) involved in the suit. The total cost of the lawsuit surpassed the limits of coverage and the nurses were required to pay out-of-pocket, the difference.

Thank you Siri. This is my point exactly, especially since NP's do have more liability.