[dawngloves]

We don't do mec screens. We do a u tox if mom admits to any drinking or drug use, baby is IUGR, no pnc, or if for whatever reason they do one on mom and it comes back positive.
The problem with a mec screen is that mom could have quit doing drugs months ago and it would still come back positive. You can't penalize a mother if she is activly getting help and turning her life around. Staying on the straigh and narrow is another story...

[BittyBabyGrower]

Most of our positive screens end up going home with mom or a relative( and you know as soon as they go out the door, the kid is with mom again) because our foster homes are so overloaded there is no where to send these kids! We have has a few cases that we have tried to have prosecuted (full term kids brain dead on delivery from various drug uses) and they never go anywhere. Why, because our state doesn't recognize the unborn fetus as a person. Isn't that a sick twist?

And the drug moms are the worst..do this do that you are hurting my baby, etc. No sister, you are the one that harmed your baby,not me. We've even had the druggie moms disappear right after delivery, esp the ones that had to have central lines put in....and I think you can guess why, brand spankin new access! Compliments of Hospital Z.

It is a culture that totally blows my mind.

We don't routinely do drug screens on all kids, LD does more than we do, so if a mom is positive they tell us and then we screen. We don't do mec screens, only urine. Reasons we screen are abruption, and a totally bad full termer for no reason. I think we are most shocked when they come back positive on people you would never suspect, such as employess of the hospital, etc. But, I guess we shouldn't be so narrow minded when it comes to drug use!

[preemieRNkate]

Just attended a delivery yesterday, mom with a + Utox for cocaine. As soon as the baby was delivered, she's asking if the baby is ok and crying and carrying on about how worried she is. Really?? You're so worried about your FT baby that you did cocaine in the last few days, maybe even in the hospital as L&D suspects? Gimme a break.

[littlepeach]

I think that in GA, a baby isn't considered a baby until 38 weeks gestation. The sad thing is that these women keep popping out sick kids that we help. but don't get any help for themselves, then they refuse tubal ligations. It is a cruel world.

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by dawngloves

Not to disqualify what you are saying, but that would mean that all the babies have a U tox sent. Is this true?

Our hospital tests the meconium when they suspect prenatal drug exposure because it's a very reliable indicator of exposure that won't show up in a urine screen.

[ilstu99]

All of our admits get a mec sent, and infants with a weird presentation or known risk factors will get a U screen. Our providers feels as though the child's right to proper treatment outweighs any perceived privacy issue. After all, it's the child we're testing and treating.

We have a ton of + screens. All we can do is make the call, and CPS takes it from there. They will send a child home with an addict parent who comes every day, completes all the parenting classes, is involved in care, etc. The parents who have kids that don't go home are the ones who are ++ AND argue all the time with the staff, don't show up for CPR/monitor training, only stop by for a few minutes once a week and so on.

Our social worker sucks, but the CPS folks have been very diligent. I just have to let it go when I've done everything I can. It doesn't get easier, though. The ones that stick in my craw the most are the ones who kind of....gloat.....when they leave. I don't know how else to explain it, but it makes my skin crawl.

[ruralnurs]

I am not a NICU nurse, I am a rural nurse in a tiny hospital, but I need to hang with you guys a bit more. I was on the CNM page and mentioned about women that smoke and do drugs and that I can't understand how a woman can do that and was totally slammed for being judgemental!

Yes I am judgemental when there is reason to be. You nurses see what happens when mom is so self centered, yes it is an addiction but people stop addictions all the time. Don't tell me it is a disease, you can't quit diabetes, you can't quit RA, you can't quit schizophrenia, but people do quit drugs, smoking and ETOH.

I was told that "some people have such hard lives and we need to be more understanding". Ya, you have a hard life but what kind of life is your baby going to have??

You nurses see the effects of these "poor women" and how "hard their lives are" and how "we need to be more understanding". I can only imagaine how frustrating (and rewarding) being a NICU nurse must be.
I will visit your page more often!

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by ruralnurs

I am not a NICU nurse, I am a rural nurse in a tiny hospital, but I need to hang with you guys a bit more. I was on the CNM page and mentioned about women that smoke and do drugs and that I can't understand how a woman can do that and was totally slammed for being judgemental!

Yes I am judgemental when there is reason to be. You nurses see what happens when mom is so self centered, yes it is an addiction but people stop addictions all the time. Don't tell me it is a disease, you can't quit diabetes, you can't quit RA, you can't quit schizophrenia, but people do quit drugs, smoking and ETOH.

I was told that "some people have such hard lives and we need to be more understanding". Ya, you have a hard life but what kind of life is your baby going to have??

You nurses see the effects of these "poor women" and how "hard their lives are" and how "we need to be more understanding". I can only imagaine how frustrating (and rewarding) being a NICU nurse must be.
I will visit your page more often!

It's one thing to do terrible things to yourself. It's quite another to do terrible things to an innocent baby.

[Stanley-RN2B]

Originally Posted by RainDreamer

This is a really tough subject and one of the saddest things I see ...... makes me the most mad too.

I'm talking about moms that abuse their babies in utero.

That's legal, correct?

Mom can do all kinds of drugs, that's ok. At the worst, the baby will be taken into CPS custody (and even that's not always the case).


So, where does it end? Are there any states that do anything to these mothers? Do the babies have any rights to health and protection? Or since this damage is done in utero, then nothing can be done?

This is quite an oversimplification of a complex issue. While women shouldn't be allowed to use drugs while pregnant, expecting someone to quit an addiction cold turkey is quite unreasonable.

Plus, where is the limit of 'Government' control.

While I understand why people are angry at these women, it is quite apparent that the people most angry have no understanding of addiction. A person in the grip of an addiction is not only no longer in control of their life or body, they can't be expected to make a decision such as 'stopping because they are pregnant.'

The only courses of action would seem to be A) involuntary detention (unfeasible d/t large numbers of addicts) B) sterilizing of addicts (ugh human rights) C) taking the baby (too little, too late). D) Allow addicted women free access to abortions.

So to answer your question... It won't ever end. Even if babies have rights in utero, protecting those rights is not feasible.

The biggest question of course is when does the baby become a separate life. I would imagine that by the time the limit for abortions has passed that the baby is already damaged. Of course if it before the limit, according to the gov't it isn't a baby yet and not protected.

So what can you do?

[RainDreamer]

Originally Posted by Stanley-RN2B

While I understand why people are angry at these women, it is quite apparent that the people most angry have no understanding of addiction. A person in the grip of an addiction is not only no longer in control of their life or body, they can't be expected to make a decision such as 'stopping because they are pregnant.'

I definitely understand addiction. I was angry when I made that first post months ago ..... after watching that baby die due to mom's choices.

I understand it's hard for these women to just stop doing the drugs even if they're pregnant. But 8 pregnancies later ..... 8 drug-addicted babies later ..... and a handful of those babies are dead or non-functioning ..... I'm sorry, but that makes me SICK.

There's a way to stop pregnancy from happening. If they want to continue with their addiction ..... they need to keep from getting pregnant. And that's not that complicated. IMO.