[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by fitchett3

all of y'all seem to be contradicting yourselves. On one side you want what is better for you (better hours, more money, more benefits) and on the other side you want better ratios, cheaper healthcare, universal healthcare.
I don't want to get too much into universal healthcare. If you want to wait in line for your cabg, go ahead. here's an interesting article:
http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/...l?id=110010374
I don't see most nurses fighting for just better ratios. they want more money too. How does that work in a world of decreasing insurance payouts? How about giving up some of your raises in exchange for more staff? I bet everyone of you wouldn't agree to that. I think the evils of unions are very apparent in the auto and airline industry. Guaranteed pension are having to be bailed out by the gov't (how much longer do you think that will last?), healthcare cost for gm= $1500 dollars per car. These industries made contracts that were feasible when things were good (1980's and 90's) but now don't work. But when they try to renegotiate with the unions, they strike. Unionized businesses don't do well with market change (ask anyone in the steel industry in pittsburg). What will happen when hospitals can't afford to pay RN's 50$ dollars an hour? Patients won't get admitted, and can't get the care they need. In this time of economic downturn, the sure is a lot of unhappy nurses looking for more, while the rest of the country is happy just to keep their jobs. I agree there are some mismanaged hospitals, but I think unions are more bad than good.
Interesting thing in my hospital. RN's are looking into unionizing. This is after 3 survey raises and a dramatic increase in benefits since I've been here in 2004. I asked one RN what the problem was. He said our hospital was low paying for the area. I asked him why he didn't move to one of the "better" paying hospitals and his answer was, "just too lazy I guess". ICU RN's have 1-2 patients here (only seen 3 patients when there was a code blue and no nurse available), Step down has 2-3 patients, and I think the worst is med/ surg and they have teams (RN/LVN) that have 8. This hospital doesn't employ many CNA's (nurse manager decisions). I think with good teamwork this is very reasonable. mgmt offers bonuses on top of overtime during peak times and I have not seen ONE instance of mgmt intentionally trying to screw the staff. Why they feel the need to unionize is really beyond my grasp. They complain about workload for HOURS around the nurses station.

I think the problem with healthcare is the same problem that the whole country has. We don't want to work for our money. We want more money. But we don't want to pay for the increased prices our raises are going to produce.

I for one am curious to see what our salaries are going to be like once national healthcare takes over. I bet everyone of you will have to take a paycut.

I am a R.T. about to graduate ASN.

Same old fear mongering........PNHP proposals do not call for paycuts except for administrative fees.......The data actually shows that the US has greater waiting times than France, AUS, Ger and the UK. Seee the Commonwealth fund website for further information...

States with strong traditions of organized labor have better living standards overall AEB better school graduation rates and health outcome data...

In Solidarity......

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by SEIU PSYCH RN

I will retire with 2.2 % of my salary per year worked with the 3 highest earned years averaged compare that to social security or a non-defined benefit plan

2.5% of salary per year worked plus paid health insurance at age 55...

Another example of the union premium...

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by Chico David RN

Isn't it interesting that the employees of an insurance company have it so good, while the insurance companies with their predatory practices are making it ever more difficult for those who receive and provide the actual care to survive at all. Their own folks get the benefits they are making it impossible for everyone else to have. I've worked for one hospital for 27 years and have no interest in changing jobs every time the whim of some idiot administrator makes things unbearable. So we organized. Now all the administrators who drove us to organize are gone - and we're still here.

The presence of a union tends to improve the quality of management and leadership within an organization.

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by jeolsz

So you think they wouldn't be taking a pay cut starting out fresh at a UNION hospital... Think again.. they would be starting at the bottom of the heap there too. Come on I've been a nurse too long to believe that.. How about the bad side of being in a union?.. Having to go out on strike when the majority of your peers don't want to sign the new contract.. And you can go thru this every few years... Having people tell me what I should want and losing friendships when you can't agree.. Lack of communication between management and staff, especially during bargaining periods and contract negotiations... I'll say it again.. Educated professionals offering a needed skill set in a time of shortage do not need unions!

Why do businesses belong to the Chamber of Commerce, Doctors AMA, NFIB? All of these are collective oganizations designed to adance the common interests of the owners.

As Jim Hightower says "everybody does better when everybody does better"

[JanFromWI]

For me a key advantage of belonging to my union (and why I would never work at a non-union facility) is knowing that when stand up and advocate for my patients, whether I take on an MD, manager, insurance rep, etc because they're jeopardizing my patient, I can do so without fear of retribution or reprisal.

[calliesue]

Bring on the union . I am ready in Texas.
I am also ready for universal health care.
Seems a shame the US should be even in the top five of industrialized nations R/T infant mortality rate.
We can do better. Lets even out the playing field for all Americans.

[jeolsz]

The mentality in this thread is exactly why I refuse to work at a union hospital. You just don't see the power you have within yourself to change your situation, without relying on the help of others. Professional organizations are very different than labor unions, and I have no problem recognizing their importance. But unions pray on fear and victim mentalities to help create friction and tension in a workplace where none really existed in the first place. It all starts when someone thinks they are unjustly wronged and it spreads to others with a similar mentality. I've never had a problem speaking up to my supervisor when a situation arose that I felt was unsafe or I felt over whelmed. I have to say most times these situations were dealt with. As far as salary or benefits, again, I was always able to find work with good pay.

When you go into a profession, you should be going into it with your eyes wide open. No one ever said that nursing was an easy job in fact quite the opposite. To whine and complain about your lot in life and take the victim approach really irritates me. There are way too many jobs and opportunities out there for licensed professional nurses.

PS I'm also a part time realtor and talk about a profession thats really having a tough time right now! I thank god for my decision 30 yrs ago to become a RN!

[herring_RN]

When the facility fails to provide sufficient competent nursing staff and that puts patients at risk nurses must speak up.

Nurses are cancelled for "low census" and patients are later admitted.
The victims are the patients.

WE work together to change conditions that are not in the interest of OUR patients.
One nurse cannot stop unsafe staffing alone. Together WE are doing it.

[jeolsz]

Originally Posted by herring_RN

When the facility fails to provide sufficient competent nursing staff and that puts patients at risk nurses must speak up.

Nurses are cancelled for "low census" and patients are later admitted.
The victims are the patients.

WE work together to change conditions that are not in the interest of OUR patients.
One nurse cannot stop unsafe staffing alone. Together WE are doing it.

I have not found in my 30 years of nursing experience, supervisors that are blind to what is going on on their watch. Most hospitals where I have worked have criteria that is followed in regards to the nurse patient ratio and do follow this to the best of their abilities. Many times when the census increases, new nurses are called in to relieve the load.. Don't need a union for common sense and accountable management.

You all assume that management is with out intellegence or sensibility. Most managers have been staff nurses at one time and understand what is needed. We should be working together with management.. they are not the enemy!

[herring_RN]

I am heartened to read that you have not had to work so short staffed that your patients were in danger. Even worse is to have a preventable death because you couldn't be in more than one place at a time.
Unfortunately like many nurses I have worked 14 hours all night with no break and still could not provide the care my patients required.

Even the JCAHO has reported that a major cause on sentinel events that harm patients is due to unsafe staffing.

There is a lot of evidence that all too many hospitals do not provide sufficient nursing staff to meed the needs of the patients.
Nurse managers are pulled between trying to provide nursing care and to meet a budget.

Without enough nurses, both patients and nurses suffer unnecessarily - Suzane Gordon http://www.betterworld.com/Safety-in...X.aspx?afid=11

Patients cared for in hospitals with higher RN staffing levels were 68% less likely to acquire a preventable infection, according to a review of outcome data of 15,000 patients in 51 U.S. hospitals — Medical Care, June 2007.

Improved RN staffing ratios are associated with a reduction in hospital-related mortality, failure to rescue, and
lengths of stay. Every additional patient assigned to an RN is associated with a 7% increase in the risk of hospitalacquired
pneumonia, a 53% increase in respiratory failure, and a 17% increase in medical complications — Agency
for Healthcare Research and Quality, May 2007.

Patients hospitalized for heart attacks, congestive heart failure, and pneumonia are more likely to receive high
quality care in hospitals with better RN staffing ratios — Archives of Internal Medicine, December 11/25, 2006.

If all hospitals increased RN staffing to match the top 25% best staffed hospitals, more than 6,700 in-hospital
patient deaths, and, overall 60,000 adverse outcomes could be avoided. The findings do not include the ancillary
value to families of reduced morbidity, such as decreased pain and suffering and days lost from work, and huge
economic savings for the hospitals — Health Affairs, January/February 2006.

Cancer surgery patients are safer in hospitals with better RN-to-patient ratios. A study of 1,300 Texas patients
undergoing a common surgery for bladder cancer documented a cut in patient mortality rates of more than 50%.
Hospitals with low volume on cancer procedures can match standards of high volume urban medical centers just
by increasing their RN ratios — Cancer, Journal of the American Cancer Society, September 2005.

Cutting RN-to-patient ratios to 1:4 nationally could save as many as 72,000 lives annually, and is less costly than
many other basic safety interventions common in hospitals, including clot-busting medications for heart attacks
and PAP tests for cervical cancer — Medical Care, Journal of the American Public Health Association, August 2005.

Chances of a hospital patient surviving cardiac arrest are lower during the night shift because staffing is usually
lower at night, even though cardiac arrest occurs at all times of day or night — according to a report on 17,991
cardiac cases from 250 hospitals — Annual meeting, American Heart Association, November 2003.

The Institutes of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences reports that "nurse staffing levels affect patient
outcomes and safety." Insufficient monitoring of patients, caused by poor working conditions and the assignment
of too few RNs, increases the likelihood of patient deaths and injuries — IOM, November 4, 2003.

Inadequate staffing precipitated one-fourth of all sentinel events — unexpected occurrences that led to patient
deaths, injuries, or permanent loss of function — reported to JCAHO, the Joint Commission on Accreditation of
Hospital Organizations, from 1997 to 2002 — JCAHO, August 7, 2002.

Improved RN-to-patient ratios reduce rates of pneumonia, urinary infections, shock, cardiac arrest, gastrointestinal
bleeding, and other adverse outcomes — New England Journal of Medicine, May 30, 2002.

Up to 20,000 patient deaths each year can be linked to preventable patient deaths. For each additional patient
assigned to an RN the likelihood of death within 30 days increased by seven percent. Four additional patients
increased the risk of death by 31% — Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), October 22, 2002.

http://www.calnurses.org/assets/pdf/...os_booklet.pdf