[elliejayRN]

I'm a new nurse and I've only worked long term in a hospital for nearly 10 years in which they were constantly fighting off the union. Great healthcare system, nurses are really spoiled, then I applied at a union hospital and what they were selling didn't justify those union fees. I prefer the hospital with the threat unionization always on the horizon.

[jeolsz]

I don't know, life is like that.. You win some and you lose some.. I try to teach my kids there are no victims just poor choses. I do realize there are some of you out there that see life as being unfair at times and see yourselves as victims of an unfair world and for you, there are unions. But I much prefer to save myself the monthly union dues and chose a different route when life doesn't go my way. There have been many times I've lost a battle and got up and moved on, and that's OK, because it's part of life and who I am right now. I don't believe in having someone oversee and make everything alright, because what's right for the group, may not be right for me.

[HM2Viking]

in general improvong the lot of the group improves your lot as an individual (There is roughly a 20% wage premium for unionized workers versus non-unionized workers.)

As Jim Hightower puts it in quting his father "everybody does better when everybody does better"

Union dues are a very cheap insurance plan against the vagaries of incompetent mangement.....

[jeolsz]

Originally Posted by HM2Viking

in general improvong the lot of the group improves your lot as an individual (There is roughly a 20% wage premium for unionized workers versus non-unionized workers.)

As Jim Hightower puts it in quting his father "everybody does better when everybody does better"

Union dues are a very cheap insurance plan against the vagaries of incompetent mangement.....

Here you assume all management is imcompetent and we all want the same thing when it comes to the work environment and our individual needs.
Many years ago, I was working as a per diem for a small local hospital which decided it needed a union. As momentum grew I really questioned what I would gain from having a union represent me. At the time I really didn't feel the end justified the means. They were representing the needs of the full time worker and I was per diem. So I decided this was not in my best interest and would not support it. Well, fellow nurses who I had known for years suddenly aquired a mob mentality and turned on me, writing scab next to my name and reporting any little infraction to my superiors. It was a low point in my career as an RN and left a really bad taste in my mouth for unions in general. Eventually things got better and people started to respect my decision, even as the union took hold.
Nothing you can say will change my opinion of unions in professional nursing as I feel they do not have a place in an educated group of people. I think it tends to squash individualism, competition and inovation. as these have no place in a socialist society.

" Living is hard, dying is easy" Jack Lalane

[HM2Viking]

We can agree to disagree. Having been the victim of a mobbing instituted by a manager and her crony I have a much different experience base to draw from in forming my opinion about the value of unions. Namecalling from either side on this issue does very little to advance the interests of nursing.

The goals of most social democrats are:

In general, contemporary social democrats support[citation needed]:

• A mixed economy consisting mainly of private enterprise, but with government owned or subsidized programs of education, healthcare, child care and related services for all citizens.
• Government bodies that regulate private enterprise in the interests of workers, consumers and fair competition.
• Advocacy of fair trade over free trade.
• An extensive system of social security (although usually not to the extent advocated by democratic socialists or other socialist groups), with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.
• Moderate to high levels of taxation (through a value-added and/or progressive taxation system) to fund government expenditure.
• Environmental protection laws (although not always to the extent advocated by Greens), such as combating global warming and increasing alternative energy funding.
• Support for immigration and multiculturalism.
• A secular and progressive social policy, although this varies markedly in degree. Most social democrats support gay marriage and abortion rights.
• A foreign policy supporting the promotion of democracy, the protection of human rights and where possible, effective multilateralism.
• As well as human rights, social democrats also support social rights, civil rights and civil liberties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

My experience and observation tells me that the average nurse in an organized labor maket has better wages, benefits and pension coverage. (Did you know that defined benefit pensions (supported by unions) have a better rate of return to the worker than defined contribution plans (supported by business.) See the epi.org website for details.

[Spidey's mom]

Originally Posted by jeolsz

Here you assume all management is imcompetent and we all want the same thing when it comes to the work environment and our individual needs.
Many years ago, I was working as a per diem for a small local hospital which decided it needed a union. As momentum grew I really questioned what I would gain from having a union represent me. At the time I really didn't feel the end justified the means. They were representing the needs of the full time worker and I was per diem. So I decided this was not in my best interest and would not support it. Well, fellow nurses who I had known for years suddenly aquired a mob mentality and turned on me, writing scab next to my name and reporting any little infraction to my superiors. It was a low point in my career as an RN and left a really bad taste in my mouth for unions in general. Eventually things got better and people started to respect my decision, even as the union took hold.
Nothing you can say will change my opinion of unions in professional nursing as I feel they do not have a place in an educated group of people. I think it tends to squash individualism, competition and inovation. as these have no place in a socialist society.

" Living is hard, dying is easy" Jack Lalane

Count me in . . . . . thanks!

steph

[Spidey's mom]

Originally Posted by HM2Viking

We can agree to disagree. Having been the victim of a mobbing instituted by a manager and her crony I have a much different experience base to draw from in forming my opinion about the value of unions. Namecalling from either side on this issue does very little to advance the interests of nursing.

The goals of most social democrats are:

In general, contemporary social democrats support[citation needed]:

• A mixed economy consisting mainly of private enterprise, but with government owned or subsidized programs of education, healthcare, child care and related services for all citizens.
• Government bodies that regulate private enterprise in the interests of workers, consumers and fair competition.
• Advocacy of fair trade over free trade.
• An extensive system of social security (although usually not to the extent advocated by democratic socialists or other socialist groups), with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.
• Moderate to high levels of taxation (through a value-added and/or progressive taxation system) to fund government expenditure.
• Environmental protection laws (although not always to the extent advocated by Greens), such as combating global warming and increasing alternative energy funding.
• Support for immigration and multiculturalism.
• A secular and progressive social policy, although this varies markedly in degree. Most social democrats support gay marriage and abortion rights.
• A foreign policy supporting the promotion of democracy, the protection of human rights and where possible, effective multilateralism.
• As well as human rights, social democrats also support social rights, civil rights and civil liberties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

My experience and observation tells me that the average nurse in an organized labor maket has better wages, benefits and pension coverage. (Did you know that defined benefit pensions (supported by unions) have a better rate of return to the worker than defined contribution plans (supported by business.) See the epi.org website for details.

Wow . . . .I disagree with just about all of those goals and think they will ruin our country.

Agreeing to disagree here too . . . . .

steph

[Spidey's mom]

http://krla.townhall.com/pages/KEVINJAMES

Here is one example, from California, about government interference.

"Democrats say they want to keep the government out of your bedroom.

Actually, they want government in every room of your house and in the ventilation system as well.


By now, you’ve probably heard about the proposal of the California Energy Commission to require that all new homes in the state be outfitted with a “programmable communicating thermostat,” an Orwellian device which would allow the government to control the temperature inside your house. Imagine: a government bureaucracy along the lines of the Department of Motor Vehicles or the U.S. Postal Service controlling the comfort level you are allowed to maintain inside your own home!


You may have read the elitist article in the New York Times which dismissed opponents of the plan as technophobic rubes.


And you might have done a high-five in your mind’s eye when you heard that the Commission was forced to table the idea after an avalanche of protests driven by the internet and talk radio (my talk radio audience was furious). A day later, the Commission dropped the idea entirely.
But this isn’t Yorktown, it’s the Battle of Lexington and Concord, and many hard years of struggle lie ahead.


The Democrats (a.k.a. global warming wimps) have found the rhetorical weapon they will use for at least the next decade to decrease your liberty while increasing their power, and that weapon is the hysteria over global warming. . . . ."

[Julia RN]

The fundamental difference in the two ideologies, IMO:

You're on your own vs we're in this together.

I choose the latter.

[HM2Viking]

Originally Posted by Julia RN

The fundamental difference in the two ideologies, IMO:

You're on your own vs we're in this together.

I choose the latter.

Very well put....