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To Unionize or Not To Unionize: Questions that every nurse should ask themselves



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  #101  
Old Apr 30, 2008, 07:17 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Re: To Unionize or Not To Unionize: Questions that every nurse should ask themselves

Originally Posted by Ludlow View Post
Herring RN
WOW! Thanks for all that info!

It should be pointed out that the things Medicare wants to NOT reimburse for like hospital acquired decubiti are things that reduce with improved RN to patient ratios.

Yeah, great info, but where in all those statements does it say unions alone improve nurse-patient ratios? My experience with unions is that they mainly consentrate on salary and benefits, not so much working conditions such as staffing. And while it is true you can file grievences thru the union and they act as an advocate for you in such issues, you can also have much of the same without a union. Most hospitals have policies and procedures, with a manuel supplied to every floor. If a policy is not followed and an adverse event happens because of it, there is a procedure that is followed to rectify the situation. Now, of course this requires less whining and complaining to a 3rd party and more interaction on the part of the employee and manager.

Prevention of decubiti requires more than just turning q 2.. Today there are special beds that help.. Teamwork and prioritization also help to prevent bedsores. And while its true some days seem endless and stressful I still believe it is part of the job, and no union can fix all problems.

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  #102  
Old Apr 30, 2008, 08:27 AM
herring_RN's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Re: To Unionize or Not To Unionize: Questions that every nurse should ask themselves

Originally Posted by jeolsz View Post
Yeah, great info, but where in all those statements does it say unions alone improve nurse-patient ratios? My experience with unions is that they mainly consentrate on salary and benefits, not so much working conditions such as staffing. And while it is true you can file grievences thru the union and they act as an advocate for you in such issues, you can also have much of the same without a union. Most hospitals have policies and procedures, with a manuel supplied to every floor. If a policy is not followed and an adverse event happens because of it, there is a procedure that is followed to rectify the situation. Now, of course this requires less whining and complaining to a 3rd party and more interaction on the part of the employee and manager.

Prevention of decubiti requires more than just turning q 2.. Today there are special beds that help.. Teamwork and prioritization also help to prevent bedsores. And while its true some days seem endless and stressful I still believe it is part of the job, and no union can fix all problems.
No one said a union can fix all problems. There will always be problems.
It is morre effective to work together to solve these problems.

In California the California Nurses Association/NNOC nurses worked for 12 years to get the ratio law passes and for the regulations into effect.
Four years later it is the union education nurses to enforce them

It was this same union nurses who prevented the governor from unilaterally
eliminated safe staffing law and regulation in med-surg and the ER.

Even before the implementation of the ratios a study showed MI survival is improved at hospitals with an RN union.

Attached Images
File Type: pdf Union effect on outcomes nurse%20Heart.pdf (99.7 KB, 3 views)
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  #103  
Old Apr 30, 2008, 10:01 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Lightbulb Re: To Unionize or Not To Unionize: Questions that every nurse should ask themselves

Originally Posted by jeolsz View Post
Yeah, great info, but where in all those statements does it say unions alone improve nurse-patient ratios? My experience with unions is that they mainly consentrate on salary and benefits, not so much working conditions such as staffing. And while it is true you can file grievences thru the union and they act as an advocate for you in such issues, you can also have much of the same without a union. Most hospitals have policies and procedures, with a manuel supplied to every floor. If a policy is not followed and an adverse event happens because of it, there is a procedure that is followed to rectify the situation. Now, of course this requires less whining and complaining to a 3rd party and more interaction on the part of the employee and manager.

Prevention of decubiti requires more than just turning q 2.. Today there are special beds that help.. Teamwork and prioritization also help to prevent bedsores. And while its true some days seem endless and stressful I still believe it is part of the job, and no union can fix all problems.
A union is only as strong as the solidarity of it's members. They must act collectively, and in unity on solutions to the working conditions that are barriers to safe and effective patient care.

Your experience, evidently doesn't include active membership and participation in a union as a nurse organizer, bargaining council member, nurse rep, or steward.

The California Nurses Association members worked to achieve passage of the first in the nation safe staffing law. It was a 12 year fight to establish minimum nurse to patient ratios. In addition, the law requires employers to "staff up" from the minimum, and additional staff must be included, based on the acuity of the patients, to meet their needs. The acuity of the patients is determined by the independent professional judgement of the direct care nurse.
http://www.calnurses.org/nursing-pra...ios_index.html

With regards to grievances, RNs have a responsibility to notify their supervisor of any condition that they believe is unsafe. Hospitals have policies and procedures, but in my experience there has been a distinct trend away from fair and legal treatment of employees. There may be a policy regarding leave of absence, or overtime, or staffing; employees are told, "you don't qualify" or "do the best you can" or "you're not a team player" and they often fear retaliation when they respectfully and thoughtfully seek redress for their issues. RNs who do so are often unfairly branded as whiners and complainers in an often times successful attempt to marginalize and ultimately silence them. Many excellent nurses leave the profession; thus, the industry contributes to the so-called nursing shortage. I don't believe that silencing protects nurses or their patients; those working conditions shouldn't be endured and worn as a "badge of honor" and accepted as "coming with the territory"!

Unfortunately, being a good nurse is not the same as being a good employee in many hospitals. Union members raise the bar, collectively for all workers, in terms of wages, hours, and working conditions. Unions have been responsible for worker comp laws, meal and break laws, equal pay for equal work laws, and freedom of association and rights for workers to form and belong to unions, and Weingarten rights, so you don't have to go into the manager's office or HR without representation and due process.

CNA/NNOC is not a third party union. It is a democratic member run labor and professional organization. A standard provision in our contracts is for the election of direct care nurses to an independent committee, called Professional Practice Committee. No management appointees. Nurses need a forum to speak freely and collectively work on solutions to present to management when staffing and acuity concerns are ignored at the unit level. We document our concerns, in writing, to eliminate administrative deniability. This becomes important if there is a poor patient outcome because it proves that management was notified that, in the judgement of the nurse, staffing was insufficient to meet the needs of the patient. Liability for staffing decisions that cause harm to patients rests with management; a nurse can "do their best" and still errors, or omissions occur because of poor working conditions. Our union documentation and "just cause discipline" provisions prevents administration from blaming the nurse for a system failure.

Regarding pressure ulcers, there are many contributing factors including age, diabetes, incontinence, immobility, mulitsystem organ failure, low albumin/poor nutrition, etc. If there aren't enough special beds to go around, or enough nurses and lift teams, or aides to turn the patients those are environment of care issues that will also predispose a patient to acquiring pressure ulcers or pose a barrier to healing them.

Many states now have ratio laws progressing through their legislatures, as the result of the collective action of NNOC members. Hospital associations and executive management groups are spending huge amounts of money to oppose them, like they did in California. They want to retain control of their ability to blame nurses for their failures to budget to meet the needs of patients; it's often all about their bottom line. If employers can circumvent their legal responsibilities and squeeze their nursing staffs to make a buck, many do so.

Without a union contract, and members willing to enforce the laws at the facility level, management can give, and management can take away, at will. Your job, your benefits, your will to continue to practice nursing, the way you were educated and are legally required to do.

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  #104  
Old May 01, 2008, 05:20 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Re: To Unionize or Not To Unionize: Questions that every nurse should ask themselves

Originally Posted by RN4MERCY View Post
Without a union contract, and members willing to enforce the laws at the facility level, management can give, and management can take away, at will. Your job, your benefits, your will to continue to practice nursing, the way you were educated and are legally required to do.

Never happened at the hospitals I worked at with out unions. In fact where my sister in law worked, there was a union there for years and when that hospital was bought up by another hospital group, she lost seniority and benefits. Explain that one. I don't think union give absolute protection against everything that MIGHT happen in your workplace.

Lightenup Chicken Little, the sky's not falling! Not every hopsital needs or wants a union, especially where there is good management. And that's my point when the question was asked at the beginning of this thread: To unionize or not to unionize... Not every facility or nurse has the need to. And if the one I was in ever did , having been thru a unionization process many years ago...I'd be out looking for a non union facility.

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  #105  
Old May 01, 2008, 12:42 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Re: To Unionize or Not To Unionize: Questions that every nurse should ask themselves

Originally Posted by RN4MERCY View Post

Many managers that I've known run from the bedside as fast as they can; they dress in such a way as to dissuade a request for hands on help. For many it's been years since they've dealt with the business end of a bedpan. They may not be "the enemy" but they have to make choices between what's right and what's wrong. Pushing for early transfers and discharges, sending staff home early, or calling off staff when the remaining staff will not have break relief or the patients won't get the nursing care they need because of high acuity-dependency, complex treatments, comorbidities...are examples of self-interested, business advocacy. Not the same as staff nurse/patient advocacy.
I always thought that nurses who got promoted (and I'm not really sure it's a promotion) to manager somehow had to have a lobotomy as part of their management orientation. They seem to totally forget what it takes to be a bedside nurse. A few managers that I've had tried at times to fight for patient care, but as has already been noted they are the agents of the corporation and have to do their bidding or lose their job.

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  #106  
Old May 02, 2008, 12:39 AM
sharona97's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Re: To Unionize or Not To Unionize: Questions that every nurse should ask themselves

My DH came home from his Union meeting this AM. Does Commercial Journeymen work, building Targets, Restrarants, etc. Same local, his friendship for his brotherhoods work as Architecual Journeyman. Never divided the two crafts before. Kind if like I work telemetry and you work Cardiac ICU, but same bennies, same respect. 2 thousand didn't show up. But want to know if a strike was voted and this round the architecual journeyman will have their local union insurance taken away to just single coverage rather than family coverage. But not the Commercial workers.

Of course they will vote down the insurance and will strike, and they didn't buy their cards, they went to school for 5 years to learn their craft. HM2Viking is right,with his factual opinion concerning the cars. It happerns and Unions stick together like glue to fight for what is right. Plus they took srtike pay away now...... Or put it on the table...

The contractors can stilll bill the same and will get lower payed workers so it seems. Is that fair to the folks that have 30 years in the industry? You are good at what you do and in an instance become invaluable to your employers?

Now the Local BA's and the rest of them who needed to be there, will surely be at the next meeting. My point, you need to work your worth in or out of unions, but in a Union organization numbers of members count, contractors want bids and monies. These craftsmen want to work. Brotherhoods keep the key to a win-win situation if everyone cares and shows solidarity. It's easier to have others negotiate for you, or some folks talk down unions. But the ones who are there in brotherhood and speaking LOUDLY at the negotistions are actually helping to save all the brothers bennies and contracts.

It takes work to hold integrity for your own good worth and work.

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