[jeolsz]

Originally Posted by herring_RN

I am heartened to read that you have not had to work so short staffed that your patients were in danger. Even worse is to have a preventable death because you couldn't be in more than one place at a time.
Unfortunately like many nurses I have worked 14 hours all night with no break and still could not provide the care my patients required.

Never said I've never worked in unsafe conditions.. Stuff happens that you can't plan for.. In a perfect world there would 1 nurse for every patient.. But nothing is ever perfect, and sometimes staffing is not up to par. My point was, why do I need a Union to insure proper staffing?

[HM2Viking]

Ask the nurses in MPLS St Paul who negotiated safe staffing language. Because of their efforts patients, and staff are safer.

MNA members in the Twin cities have a portable defined benefit pension. In other words all employers are contributing to a single pension fund on behalf of nurse members which cuts administrative costs and increases returns for members.

Last contract settled without any need for talk of a job action because nurses are viewed as professionals and respected.

[forrester]

You all assume that management is with out intellegence or sensibility. Most managers have been staff nurses at one time and understand what is needed. We should be working together with management.. they are not the enemy! (quote)

No one has said that management is without intelligence or sensibility.
Non-nursing management is very intelligent, and ruthless.
Nursing administration is incompetent at best and caught between a brick and a hard place. Hence, the high turn-over rates. They cannot control the most pressing issues of pay, ratios, and ancillary staffing.

Nursing administrations are represented by their organization, the AONE. The AONE is a chapter of the AHA. The AHA has continously opposed any efforts to improve conditions at the bedside. I can't tell you how many JACHO inspections I've been thru. Staffing levels suddenly reach appropriate levels during the inspection. Granted, JACHO is a joke, but if there wasn't a problem, why the abrupt change during the inspections?

THEY (management) know there's a problem.

[sharona97]

Originally Posted by jeolsz

Why do you need a union for that?.. I have been working for a health insurance corporation for 10 years and I'll retire with a pension and a 401K that my employer contributes well to every year. I have access to great benefits and all different nursing positions that allow me to work from the comfort of my home. Oh yeah, and a great salary to boot! All this without a union! I got this job with a four year college degree, a NJ nursing license and plenty of hospital experience....But not a union in sight... Choices, that's what matters in life, not what other people think is good for me.

And yes, if you don't like what's happening at your job, you always have the opportunity to change it or leave.. If there is enough turnover at your place of employment, I think management will get the message!

1. Management doesn't pay my salary or hourly wage.
2. Non-union jobs do not have a work clause that protects you from unfair firings, harrassment nor managerial subjectvive feelings or paper trails for their perceived right of empowerment to do so unfairly and at times illegaly.
3. Unions protect you and your job, no matter how much you save in your years of working without union support.
4. Without a union your hard earned savings could be taken away in a blink of an eye and along with that your job, career and accusations of defamation of character and get away with it.
5. Serious unions hold meetings outside of the work place, on your time not on your employers time.

[sharona97]

Originally Posted by Chico David RN

Also, it's nice that nurses in non-union hospitals can benefit from the hard work and sacrifice of their sisters and brothers in unions, but not something to be particularly proud of.

To me that's like saying, maybe I'll help my co-worker or just watch her do all the work and don't even think about how it would help her...........

[jeolsz]

I've gotta tell you, I've worked in nursing for close to 30 years.. Never been fired, never lost a pension or benefits.. Only worked in one hospital that became unionized while I was there, and I've gotta say I saw very little improvement in my personal situation at the time.

I've read alot of union rhetoric in this thread, and it sounds to me as though alot of you like to spread fear and "what-if's" to many who don't know any better. To those who are new to nursing and may tend to believe alot of what you have read here about unions trust me, as you become more experienced in your profession, your options increase and better days lie ahead...without the help of a union. I've had my share of disgusting, stressful and perfectly awful jobs and it's really all part of the job. But as a nurse your options are almost limitless.. and in my opinion, unions have no place in our profession. We have too many options and after all there is a shortage of us!

[RN1989]

Originally Posted by jeolsz

We have too many options and after all there is a shortage of us!

I'm sorry but there is not a shortage of nurses in the US. There is a shortage of nurses willing to work in unsafe and demeaning workplaces. Please learn more about the ratios of nurses holding licenses in the US that report they are working in nursing compared to large numbers of licensed nurses that report being unemployed or working outside of nursing. If there were a true nursing shortage, nurses could write their own employment tickets with no need for collective bargaining.

The employers along with associations such as the ANA, AHA, etc. work to divide nurses and perpetuate the shortage myth as an excuse to the public for crappy care. In reality, these organizations are well aware that there is not a real nursing shortage and use scare tactics to keep healthcare staff in line. As a manager, I heard first hand the comments that "nurses are a dime a dozen, if you don't like it here, leave and we'll have someone to replace you the same day". Employers aren't afraid. Why do you think they import ESL nurses into this country? Those nurses are afraid of deportation and being unable to send money home so they have no qualms about keeping their mouths shut and taking it without any surgilube.

New nurses should be scared. I've watched as it took nurses 20+ years before they go burned out and ready to quit. As time went on, it only took nurses about 15 years to decide to leave nursing. Things have progressed so far that now it only takes 1 year for many nurses to decide that they wasted their money on their nursing education. Obviously something is wrong.

There is definitely room for improvements with the unions and the possibility of corruption within them is always in the back of my mind. But I have also spent too many years seeing that nurses are afraid to stand up for what is right when they are the only ones doing it. So if unions give nurses courage to stand up for pts and themselves, then I say GO UNION!

[jeolsz]

Originally Posted by RN1989

I'm sorry but there is not a shortage of nurses in the US. There is a shortage of nurses willing to work in unsafe and demeaning workplaces. Please learn more about the ratios of nurses holding licenses in the US that report they are working in nursing compared to large numbers of licensed nurses that report being unemployed or working outside of nursing. If there were a true nursing shortage, nurses could write their own employment tickets with no need for collective bargaining.

New nurses should be scared. I've watched as it took nurses 20+ years before they go burned out and ready to quit. As time went on, it only took nurses about 15 years to decide to leave nursing. Things have progressed so far that now it only takes 1 year for many nurses to decide that they wasted their money on their nursing education. Obviously something is wrong.

WOW!.. I don't know where you live, but there is a shortage in the NY/NJ area. Listen, burn out happens whether you have a union or not. And you talk as if hospital nursing is their only option. There are so many different jobs you can have as an RN: Case Management, Ambulatory surgical centers, Schools, Corporate positions, Insurance Co's, Agency nursing, Hospice, Home care.. the list goes on.. New nurses, you have not wasted your money.. You have invested in one of the best career options out there! Bedside nursing is very difficult and ( this is only my opinion) meant for the young and strong ( I know I'm going to get skewered for that!) Pulling up 300 lbs of dead weight was not a job designed for a 50 year old woman ( or man.. I don't want to be sexest here!) Back to the point, however, you all still have not convinced me that a union has a place in professional nursing, considering some of the options I just listed.

[Ludlow]

Herring RN
WOW! Thanks for all that info!

It should be pointed out that the things Medicare wants to NOT reimburse for like hospital acquired decubiti are things that reduce with improved RN to patient ratios.

[RN4MERCY]

[quote=forrester;2797143]You all assume that management is with out intellegence or sensibility. Most managers have been staff nurses at one time and understand what is needed. We should be working together with management.. they are not the enemy! (quote)

Management has competing interests with workers. Management advocates for the business, bottom-line. Their raises depend on their "cost" savings. Nurse managers are often given budgets that aren't sufficient for them to hire enough nurses to provide meal and break relief, or enough nurses to staff up based on the patient's acuity. The greedy ones squeeze their staffs, or fail to hire more nurses because they get to keep a percentage of what they save. This is how they incentivize their bad behavior. Self interest!

RNs have a duty to advocate in the exclusive interests of their patients. According to Title 16, Standards of Competent Performance in California, The RN, "Acts as the client's advocate, as circumstances require by initiating action to improve health care or to change decisions or activities which are against the interests or wishes of the client."

Many managers that I've known run from the bedside as fast as they can; they dress in such a way as to dissuade a request for hands on help. For many it's been years since they've dealt with the business end of a bedpan. They may not be "the enemy" but they have to make choices between what's right and what's wrong. Pushing for early transfers and discharges, sending staff home early, or calling off staff when the remaining staff will not have break relief or the patients won't get the nursing care they need because of high acuity-dependency, complex treatments, comorbidities...are examples of self-interested, business advocacy. Not the same as staff nurse/patient advocacy.